Dirty Rushing and Consequences

[33girl]

The only thing I can think of is not permitting them to participate in things like Homecoming or intramurals. Then again, that only works if Greeks on the campus make a big deal out of it. Plus you're kind of getting out of the Panhellenic sphere and into something a campus jud board or Greek council would have to solve, and you know the guys would be like "they did what? Who gives a crap?"

The less Greeks are deeply involved with the campus, the less fines and sanctions will work. Like you said, they'll just have unregistered parties and take their chances. You could report them to their national, but that seems kind of vindictive...and the national might believe their own rather than an accusing Panhel.

[UGAalum94]

I didn't realize you could COB over total. I always imagined that the bids went through the Greek Life office and someone kept track, but especially at schools with no Greek Life office, I can see how that would be my faulty thinking.

Please kept in mind that I only know SEC situations, and I recognize that every place isn't like the SEC, but I haven't had experience with how things play out elsewhere.

Based on what I have seen, it seems kind of reasonable to be somewhat flexible in COB situations at campuses where groups can go over total by pledging to quota during formal. It seems a little odd that it's allowed one semester to pledge above, but not the next.

And since at the campuses I know, only the groups who either don't consistently make quota or have trouble with retention are COBing, basically even going up to total keeps them smaller than the groups who always pledge quota and keep everyone. So oddly, a hard COB cap at total "hurts" small to medium sized groups. Or maybe it helps the small at the expense of the medium?

Imagine a group at UGA where chapter total is 170 or 175, something like that, but quota is 50 to 60 each year. A group that hits quota and keeps everyone could have a lot more girls than a group who didn't make quota or lost a lot from year to year*. The smaller group might get to total as it's presently set, but they won't really ever be able to make up what can end up being a pretty big size difference. Why not let them COB a few more if they can?

Maybe everyone could alway be welcome to bid to largest chapter size in COB, rather than average size? (Now, that I think about it, isn't that one of the choices for how you set total? For the first time, I can see its appeal.)

*You'd think that every group had the same shot at retention, and to some degree that's right, but chapters that typically pledge socially prominent, very affluent girls (often the top groups during formal) probably don't have as many girls with financial difficulties, and groups viewed a lower tier groups may not be able to give their members the same social experience as "top" groups, leading to more drops.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I didn't realize you could COB over total. I always imagined that the bids went through the Greek Life office and someone kept track, but especially at schools with no Greek Life office, I can see how that would be my faulty thinking.

I think DBB talked about this before and if I recall it wasn't a screwup on the part of the GL office, it was the sorority omitting/twisting membership information.

The problem is once the girls are given the bids...taking the bids back would penalize the pledges more than it would the sorority. It's not their fault (well, usually) that they got caught up in something shady, so they shouldn't have to pay for it.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think DBB talked about this before and if I recall it wasn't a screwup on the part of the GL office, it was the sorority omitting/twisting membership information.

The problem is once the girls are given the bids...taking the bids back would penalize the pledges more than it would the sorority. It's not their fault (well, usually) that they got caught up in something shady, so they shouldn't have to pay for it.

Actually, to this day I believe it was an HONEST MISTAKE on the part of the group involved (not my own), because they didn't understand the quota/total rules and exactly how they worked. However, ignorance of the rules is not a defense, in my mind, no more than it ignorance of the law is a defense for a traffic violation.

I was actually the one who found out about it and got our area officer involved, and we weren't out to "get" the other sorority or see them punished. In a COB situation, it was likely they were girls would would have gone to that chapter or not gone Greek at all.

The problem was that allowing it to go unnoticed would set a really dangerous precedent for future situations.

[arkadpi]

Dirty Rushing at our campus has been ghastly since I pledged, in 2005. There have been changes in the scheduling of recruitment, from before school started to now, during the first semester. It's gotten worse, of course. Most girls I knew got calls from several of our 8 houses during the off-time of Rush week. The houses would call to assure girls that they were wanted, and to confirm that the PNM would not cut their house, ABC, the next day.
So, if ABC ends up not giving her a bid, she might complain to the Greek Life Office, but what can they do about it? She didn't get a bid. They can't give her one. If she files an official complaint for dirty rushing, they get fined. Most houses do budget for fines.
A few houses have consistently released more women than allowed on the first and second nights of recruitment. That may be a hefty fine, even, but their alums and budgetting allow them too. Even if it were a difficult payment for the chapter to make financially, who cares? They don't get those women added back to their party lists for the next days of rush. They get rid of them. They get what they want. And their chapters don't have to hold on to the women that are guaranteed a bid from somebody, because of our campus's policy. No punishments can fix that. No matter what the infraction, all dirty-rushing usually gets the offending chapter little punishment. Restricting numbers would actually keep that from happening, and I'm inclined to agree with the policy.

[exlurker]

LSU's Panhellenic has reportedly adopted new sanctions for bid promising, which is supposedly a problem there sometimes:

Recent article:

http://tigerweekly.com/article/12-11-2007/7168

Until now, the penalty for bid promising there was a fine and possibly some sort of probation.
The new policy, according to the article ^, is:

"Chapters found in violation of this policy will result in social suspension on and off campus for the fall semester,” as stated in the Rules Governing Recruitment. This means no exchanges, no formals, semi-formals, grubs or grab-a-dates for an entire semester if found responsible for promising a potential member an invitation to a chapter.

Of course, I guess the bid promising would have to be reported in the first place, then investigated.

Is it likely that the new policy will produce the results LSU's Panhel wants? Do I look like I know? Anyone with good knowledge of LSU recruitment care to discuss?

[NutBrnHair]

Originally Posted by exlurker

LSU's Panhellenic has reportedly adopted new sanctions for bid promising, which is supposedly a problem there sometimes:

Recent article:

http://tigerweekly.com/article/12-11-2007/7168

It certainly is a problem that needs attention; however, I still think it will be difficult to enforce. Won't it end up being her word against hers?

Here's an idea -- bring Judge Judy in for the week after Bid Day -- she'll get to the bottom of it!

[carnation]

[QUOTE=arkadpi;1562821]Dirty Rushing at our campus has been ghastly since I pledged, in 2005.[QUOTE]

LOL, it was ghastly at UAF 35 years ago too.

[Denise_DPhiE]

All of the posts in this thread just emphasize the giant BIATCH attitude of some groups/campuses. Glad I do not deal with collegians b/c this stuff is ugly!

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by Denise_DPhiE

All of the posts in this thread just emphasize the giant BIATCH attitude of some groups/campuses. Glad I do not deal with collegians b/c this stuff is ugly!

I'm with you, D. I've never even heard of these types of things going on. It's not that I don't believe that they do, it's just so different from how things were on my campus. Everyone got along just fine. I guess I should consider myself lucky in that regard.

I think someone said it's against the greenbook rules, but I think just taking away the chapter's right to continue with Recruitment that semester and entirely denying them a pledge class would do the trick. I mean if you can't "play fair" then you shouldn't be allowed to "play" at all. Obviously that wouldn't fly though, so it's not helpful. Sorry.

[twinkle555]

Recently, there was a rumor going around here about one of the houses losing their social priviledges (sp?) for next semester b/c during recruitment they gave a PNM a piece of jewelry ($$$) and a bid promise. I was shocked, but then again I have heard that this house has a budget for infractions b/c they get them so much. Who knows..

p.s- the girl that was promised a bid, went to a different house.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I think someone said it's against the greenbook rules, but I think just taking away the chapter's right to continue with Recruitment that semester and entirely denying them a pledge class would do the trick.

It's not just the Green Book, it's a freedom of association issue.

They can be denied the right to participate in formal recruitment (as it's a Panhellenically run event) but they are still allowed to recruit members in other ways - COB, etc. Something like this can actually backfire, because it would allow the "penalized" group to hold whatever kind of parties they want, without rules on frills and time limits and such.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by arkadpi

A few houses have consistently released more women than allowed on the first and second nights of recruitment.

How would this be a problem? It sounds like your campus uses release figures. Release figures suggest a different number of PNMs for each chapter to invite back based on retention. Chapters are allowed to invite fewer than the suggested number, but they can't invite more. If a chapter wants to release more PNMs than their suggested number, that's their problem IMO, because it's a risk they're willing to take.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

How would this be a problem? It sounds like your campus uses release figures. Release figures suggest a different number of PNMs for each chapter to invite back based on retention. Chapters are allowed to invite fewer than the suggested number, but they can't invite more. If a chapter wants to release more PNMs than their suggested number, that's their problem IMO, because it's a risk they're willing to take.

Exactly. Just because your "number" is zero, doesn't mean you actually want to accept everyone or can particularly when it comes down to grades.

[acuisla]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Exactly. Just because your "number" is zero, doesn't mean you actually want to accept everyone or can particularly when it comes down to grades.

Well, what it meant to a chapter I advised is that the NPC Area Rep *and* the release figure expert were calling me and the folks above me in the organization....and then my NPC Delegate called me....and all of them wanted to know why in the heck my chapter was cutting more women than the release figures said they were supposed to. And then there was the visit after recruitment....

Despite the fact that the chapter took quota +1 - the women happened to be really good recruiters and the chapter was consistently one of the "top 3" on campus, and so they could technically afford to be a little more picky.

That said, it was a calculated risk they ran, and I let them do it. But after the NPC backlash, I didn't let them do it again. Too much drama during a high-drama time of the year.