Life's short, get a divorce

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

The divorce rate is higher among Christians. Why? I don't know, but we'll have to agree to disagree, because I still think a couple should work through the tribulations, and through Christ it can be done. I can't speak for the Christians who get a divorce, but I know a lot that stay married.

So I have seen both a Buddhist Vietnamese wedding and both Muslim and Hindu weddings have been described to me. So, if one is not a Christian, how do they allow Christ to assist a couple in their marriages?

Rarely do I see Muslims getting divorced. Rarely.

For that matter, rarely do I see Hindus getting divorced...

I'm sure it happens, but I don't know anyone who has gotten divorced.

In generally, American society gets divorced. It doesn't matter what God they believe. Hayle, they can worship the Devil, they still get divorced...

Marriages are NOT fairy tales. They are serious. I don't think this seriousness is relayed.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

So I have seen both a Buddhist Vietnamese wedding and both Muslim and Hindu weddings have been described to me. So, if one is not a Christian, how do they allow Christ to assist a couple in their marriages?

Rarely do I see Muslims getting divorced. Rarely.

For that matter, rarely do I see Hindus getting divorced...

I'm sure it happens, but I don't know anyone who has gotten divorced.

In generally, American society gets divorced. It doesn't matter what God they believe. Hayle, they can worship the Devil, they still get divorced...

Marriages are NOT fairy tales. They are serious. I don't think this seriousness is relayed.

Sorry. I had to log off for a second. I was cooking something and I forgot it was in the oven. It's burned. Oh well.

Back on topic.

The divorce rate in higher in the United States than any other country. I think other beliefs and cultures just believe in working things out. Americans don't.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Sorry. I had to log off for a second. I was cooking something and I forgot it was in the oven. It's burned. Oh well.

Back on topic.

The divorce rate in higher in the United States than any other country. I think other beliefs and cultures just believe in working things out. Americans don't.

Or a lot of other countries don't have no-fault divorce and we do and a lot of other countries don't frown on cohabitation prior to marriage and we do.

[KSig RC]

What is so positive about "just working things out?"

What if things CAN'T be "worked out"?

The irony here is that it's a very American viewpoint that therapy can solve all issues - that's not at all true. All the counseling in the world can't save a bad marriage - and people change over time. The desire to be married by a certain (usually young) age carries the risk of change, the risk of divorce - and bending over backwards to make it work, while certainly a romantic ideal, seems counterproductive, tedious, and borderline insane to me.

You can't foresee all the problems in a marriage, and you can't just up and decide to "make" something work. To think otherwise is at best arrogant.

[OneTimeSBX]

i saw a comedian joke about how it is cheap and quick to get married, and costs thousands to divorce. he claimed the divorce rate would be much lower if it were the other way around...

sounds funny, but doesnt that make sense? people would refuse to grant divorces to their significant other, saying "there is no way im divorcing you, do you know what i went thru to marry you??"

i dont believe in just waking up and saying, to hell with you, im leaving. i believe that it was created to end truly bad situations, i.e. abuse, etc. you dont always know what you are getting in a marriage, and its a shame people have just decided that spouses are like underwear: cheap and dispensable...

[James]

I used to say (yesterday): Marriage is like a committed relationship with a massive financial penalty clause if it doesn't work out.

Marriage is an ageement to stay with someone when you don't want to be with them anymore. (Not many people leave those they want to be with)

My chiropractor: "If you knew that 60% of all planes crashed, would you fly? Consider marriage . . . "

[ISUKappa]

Personally, I do think counseling (both pre-marriage and, if necessary, marital) *can* help couples take their relationship to a different place, be it learning how to reconnect with each other or decide there is simply no love left and it is time to part ways.

I agree with Monet and Susan: marriage is work and it's not all romance, all the time. I think younger couples especially have skewed ideas of what a marriage is like and when they're hit with the reality of it, they're unsure they made the right decision.

The husband and I will celebrate our 4th anniversary in Sept. Do I love him? Yes. Do I *like* some of the things he does? Hell no. Sometimes he's a complete idiot and I let him know in not-so-nice ways. We get on each other's nerves. We are not the best communicators (and we know this). We argue. There are times I wish I would have waited a few years before getting married so I could have more experiences on my own. But we get through those moments. I married him, not only because of romantic attachment, but because we are compatable in so many other ways from our backgrounds to our religious beliefs to what we want in our future to our cracked-out sense of humors. Romantic attachment alone will not keep a marriage working, there also has to be mutual respect and compatability.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

What is so positive about "just working things out?"

What if things CAN'T be "worked out"?

The irony here is that it's a very American viewpoint that therapy can solve all issues - that's not at all true. All the counseling in the world can't save a bad marriage - and people change over time. The desire to be married by a certain (usually young) age carries the risk of change, the risk of divorce - and bending over backwards to make it work, while certainly a romantic ideal, seems counterproductive, tedious, and borderline insane to me.

You can't foresee all the problems in a marriage, and you can't just up and decide to "make" something work. To think otherwise is at best arrogant.

How is that arrogant? Of course no one can forsee the problems in a marriage, but the problems can be fixed. Couples get frustrated and then they just want to give up. Why even get married, because there are going to be problems. For the people who just want to give up, should just stay single and keep meeting the same men and women at bars and night clubs for the rest of their lives and run the risk of catching AIDS.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

How is that arrogant? Of course no one can forsee the problems in a marriage, but the problems can be fixed. Couples get frustrated and then they just want to give up. Why even get married, because there are going to be problems. For the people who just want to give up, should just stay single and keep meeting the same men and women at bars and night clubs for the rest of their lives and run the risk of catching AIDS.

wow, this certainly was a nasty post, and not at all cheerful. Not to mention, if you kept meeting the same men & women the chance of catching AIDS would go way down.

Problems cannot be fixed if BOTH people aren't willing to work at it. My best friend wanted to work out the problems in her marriage, but her husband did not. She had no choice. She certainly didn't want to get divorced.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

What is so positive about "just working things out?"

What if things CAN'T be "worked out"?

The irony here is that it's a very American viewpoint that therapy can solve all issues - that's not at all true. All the counseling in the world can't save a bad marriage - and people change over time. The desire to be married by a certain (usually young) age carries the risk of change, the risk of divorce - and bending over backwards to make it work, while certainly a romantic ideal, seems counterproductive, tedious, and borderline insane to me.

You can't foresee all the problems in a marriage, and you can't just up and decide to "make" something work. To think otherwise is at best arrogant.

Therapy won't necessarily keep couples together, but it's only partially designed to. Therapy can help people make the decision whether to work things out or break it off, and if they do divorce it can make it a much more amiable experience which is better for all parties, particularly the kids.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Therapy won't necessarily keep couples together, but it's only partially designed to. Therapy can help people make the decision whether to work things out or break it off, and if they do divorce it can make it a much more amiable experience which is better for all parties, particularly the kids.

Oh I agree - I wasn't really ripping therapy or counseling in general, just this overbearing "Candyland" view of its efficacy without regard to the situation that seems pervasive. It's the "Dr. Phil Corollary", if you will.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Marriages are NOT fairy tales. They are serious. I don't think this seriousness is relayed.

You hit the nail on the head here!

I do think that it can be a good thing that some of the societal stigma of divorce is gone. (For example, 50 years ago, a person may have stayed with a chronically unfaithful or abusive partner just to avoid the stigma of divorce. The stigma being gone gives that person more options.)

That said, I think that we (as a society) have went a little too far to the opposite extreme. There are people who think that "good" marriages don't have rocky patches, that "good" couples never fight or disagree, etc. So, some of those people give up at the first sign of a problem. When the "giving up" occurs, they might not necessarily run to the divorce lawyer, but they may start withdrawing emotionally from the marriage...once one partner starts to "give up" mentally, its hard to reverse that deterioration.

All couples disagree occasionally. All marriages occasionally go through rough patches. While a person shouldn't be subject to chronic and vicious arguing, its certainly not realistic to think that a person will never argue with their spouse either. I always chuckle when a relative newlywed expresses concern because they "just had their first fight" - honey, it was bound to happen eventually. Arguing isn't the problem - its how the couple argues that is a problem. (Does it get violent? Do they hold grudges? Do they fight fair? etc.)

(Note - it should go without saying, but I'll say it anyhow: I'm certainly not saying that all divorces come about any one particular way - each has its own set of circumstances. But we've all witnessed/experienced those relationships that die a slow death...or even come to a sudden end...because one or both parties gave up once the honeymoon period was over and a little trouble came along.)

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by susan314

You hit the nail on the head here!

I do think that it can be a good thing that some of the societal stigma of divorce is gone. (For example, 50 years ago, a person may have stayed with a chronically unfaithful or abusive partner just to avoid the stigma of divorce. The stigma being gone gives that person more options.)

That said, I think that we (as a society) have went a little too far to the opposite extreme. There are people who think that "good" marriages don't have rocky patches, that "good" couples never fight or disagree, etc. So, some of those people give up at the first sign of a problem. When the "giving up" occurs, they might not necessarily run to the divorce lawyer, but they may start withdrawing emotionally from the marriage...once one partner starts to "give up" mentally, its hard to reverse that deterioration.

All couples disagree occasionally. All marriages occasionally go through rough patches. While a person shouldn't be subject to chronic and vicious arguing, its certainly not realistic to think that a person will never argue with their spouse either. I always chuckle when a relative newlywed expresses concern because they "just had their first fight" - honey, it was bound to happen eventually. Arguing isn't the problem - its how the couple argues that is a problem. (Does it get violent? Do they hold grudges? Do they fight fair? etc.)

(Note - it should go without saying, but I'll say it anyhow: I'm certainly not saying that all divorces come about any one particular way - each has its own set of circumstances. But we've all witnessed/experienced those relationships that die a slow death...or even come to a sudden end...because one or both parties gave up once the honeymoon period was over and a little trouble came along.)

Some of the articles I read from Gary Chapman and others said that "good marriages" do argue and have disagreements, but they fight fair. They keep the gloves up and don't hold onto the neck. Moreover, the fighting is actually funny from outsiders, not belittling, but actually hilarious...

My husband and I are beginning to get use to each others mood swings and we argue and fight that way... It diffuses many a situation fast. But it's those little things that we make it work.

How do people get to that: EVOLUTION--through Natural Selection...

[cheerfulgreek]

Good night all. I enjoyed chatting with you.

CG

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by susan314

You hit the nail on the head here!

I do think that it can be a good thing that some of the societal stigma of divorce is gone. (For example, 50 years ago, a person may have stayed with a chronically unfaithful or abusive partner just to avoid the stigma of divorce. The stigma being gone gives that person more options.)

That said, I think that we (as a society) have went a little too far to the opposite extreme. There are people who think that "good" marriages don't have rocky patches, that "good" couples never fight or disagree, etc. So, some of those people give up at the first sign of a problem. When the "giving up" occurs, they might not necessarily run to the divorce lawyer, but they may start withdrawing emotionally from the marriage...once one partner starts to "give up" mentally, its hard to reverse that deterioration.

All couples disagree occasionally. All marriages occasionally go through rough patches. While a person shouldn't be subject to chronic and vicious arguing, its certainly not realistic to think that a person will never argue with their spouse either. I always chuckle when a relative newlywed expresses concern because they "just had their first fight" - honey, it was bound to happen eventually. Arguing isn't the problem - its how the couple argues that is a problem. (Does it get violent? Do they hold grudges? Do they fight fair? etc.)

How many ways can one say "Word" to this post?
As a future (I hope!) Marriage and Family Therapist, I can say that you are spot on. How you argue, how you resolve problems, your expectations ahead of time, these are BIG factors in the happiness of your marriage. Also, how's your support system? Do you go to church (any church/temple/etc.), is your family a positive support system, etc. The rockiest marriage can get better if the support system is good, and the couple is willing to work on it.