Life's short, get a divorce

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I know. It's hard for me to speak on it when I haven't done it, but a lot of people who have been married for 30, 40 and 50 years don't have a recipe for a successful marriage. They sacrifce and work it out.

Who do you know personally that has been married 30 years? Then you need to ask them how they did it.

How do you measure success in a marriage? I know people who don't speak for several years.

Hayle, I know a couple married 40+ years who attended a marriage enrichment course...

No, it isn't just about sacrifice and working things out. It's about surrendering and giving it up to God...

[James]

I thought it was about superior social skills coupled with romantic passion.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Who do you know personally that has been married 30 years? Then you need to ask them how they did it.

How do you measure success in a marriage? I know people who don't speak for several years.

Hayle, I know a couple married 40+ years who attended a marriage enrichment course...

No, it isn't just about sacrifice and working things out. It's about surrendering and giving it up to God...

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by susan314

By the same token though, I think that we live in a more selfish society today than we did back then. People are far more concerned about "what's in it for them" than they were years ago. (About everything - not specifically marriage/divorce. I'm certainly not saying that people who get divorced are selfish!)

That is a fair point.

My question though is whether the shift in attitude towards self is due more to a change in fundamental human nature or to a shift in societal structure that permits fundamental human nature to more fully manifest itself.

I think the latter is true. Self-interest is at the core of all living beings. Survival of the fittest and all that.

But the beauty of having a society where people are free to look out for themselves is that those of faith have the opportunity to live by the example they choose and truly espouse it.

This is where a lot of the "religious right" in this country misses the boat. A society geared around choice is actually supportive of the Christian lifestyle because Christianity, like any other religion, is based in the strength of the individual to make choices in accordance with his/her beliefs regardless of peer pressure.

Catholicism is a test case for where US Evangelical Christianity is headed because of its stance on issues like this. My undergrad degree was Spanish Literature- with a focus on Medievel and Renaissance texts. The entire literary focus of that nation for hundreds of years centered around the murderous tendencies and sexual molestation of a political power that based itself in the hope and beauty religion is supposed to provide.

It amuses me that such behaviors continue today and are excused as outliers when in fact they are merely part of a culture steeped in our darkest history.

Christianity is only as good as the person living it and whether they pattern their life after its teachings or twist its teachings to justify their life choices.

And only the individual can really know which is the horse and which is the cart in that scenario.

A society that offers opportunity for ALL to be self-sustaining will allow for those whose personal beliefs guide them to a proper life to put in the effort necessary to ensure a life in accordance with those beliefs.

Anything less merely ensures that religion and societal trends dictated by a segment of society will be used to oppress others- in marriage and all other things.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by James

I thought it was about superior social skills coupled with romantic passion.

Yeah, I mean its about roses, breakfast in bed, a large house with a white picket fence, and doing EVERYTHING together!!!

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

That is a fair point.

My question though is whether the shift in attitude towards self is due more to a change in fundamental human nature or to a shift in societal structure that permits fundamental human nature to more fully manifest itself.

I think the latter is true. Self-interest is at the core of all living beings. Survival of the fittest and all that.

But the beauty of having a society where people are free to look out for themselves is that those of faith have the opportunity to live by the example they choose and truly espouse it.

This is where a lot of the "religious right" in this country misses the boat. A society geared around choice is actually supportive of the Christian lifestyle because Christianity, like any other religion, is based in the strength of the individual to make choices in accordance with his/her beliefs regardless of peer pressure.

Catholicism is a test case for where US Evangelical Christianity is headed because of its stance on issues like this. My undergrad degree was Spanish Literature- with a focus on Medievel and Renaissance texts. The entire literary focus of that nation for hundreds of years centered around the murderous tendencies and sexual molestation of a political power that based itself in the hope and beauty religion is supposed to provide.

It amuses me that such behaviors continue today and are excused as outliers when in fact they are merely part of a culture steeped in our darkest history.

Christianity is only as good as the person living it and whether they pattern their life after its teachings or twist its teachings to justify their life choices.

And only the individual can really know which is the horse and which is the cart in that scenario.

A society that offers opportunity for ALL to be self-sustaining will allow for those whose personal beliefs guide them to a proper life to put in the effort necessary to ensure a life in accordance with those beliefs.

Anything less merely ensures that religion and societal trends dictated by a segment of society will be used to oppress others- in marriage and all other things.

So are you saying marriage is purely a religious institution? Help me understand.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

So I have seen both a Buddhist Vietnamese wedding and both Muslim and Hindu weddings have been described to me. So, if one is not a Christian, how do they allow Christ to assist a couple in their marriages?

Rarely do I see Muslims getting divorced. Rarely.

For that matter, rarely do I see Hindus getting divorced...

I'm sure it happens, but I don't know anyone who has gotten divorced.

In generally, American society gets divorced. It doesn't matter what God they believe. Hayle, they can worship the Devil, they still get divorced...

Marriages are NOT fairy tales. They are serious. I don't think this seriousness is relayed.

Sorry. I had to log off for a second. I was cooking something and I forgot it was in the oven. It's burned. Oh well.

Back on topic.

The divorce rate in higher in the United States than any other country. I think other beliefs and cultures just believe in working things out. Americans don't.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Who do you know personally that has been married 30 years? Then you need to ask them how they did it.

How do you measure success in a marriage? I know people who don't speak for several years.

Hayle, I know a couple married 40+ years who attended a marriage enrichment course...

No, it isn't just about sacrifice and working things out. It's about surrendering and giving it up to God...

Before my dad passed away, my parents were married for over 39 years. That's what I said. I think it's not only about sacrifice, but also about letting Christ in the marriage, and keeping the marriage fresh and new also.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

This is a good topic. I think the bottom line is if you aren't willing to sacrifice, then don't get married. Period.

I can't agree more. Of course there is more to it than that.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Marriages are NOT fairy tales. They are serious. I don't think this seriousness is relayed.

You hit the nail on the head here!

I do think that it can be a good thing that some of the societal stigma of divorce is gone. (For example, 50 years ago, a person may have stayed with a chronically unfaithful or abusive partner just to avoid the stigma of divorce. The stigma being gone gives that person more options.)

That said, I think that we (as a society) have went a little too far to the opposite extreme. There are people who think that "good" marriages don't have rocky patches, that "good" couples never fight or disagree, etc. So, some of those people give up at the first sign of a problem. When the "giving up" occurs, they might not necessarily run to the divorce lawyer, but they may start withdrawing emotionally from the marriage...once one partner starts to "give up" mentally, its hard to reverse that deterioration.

All couples disagree occasionally. All marriages occasionally go through rough patches. While a person shouldn't be subject to chronic and vicious arguing, its certainly not realistic to think that a person will never argue with their spouse either. I always chuckle when a relative newlywed expresses concern because they "just had their first fight" - honey, it was bound to happen eventually. Arguing isn't the problem - its how the couple argues that is a problem. (Does it get violent? Do they hold grudges? Do they fight fair? etc.)

(Note - it should go without saying, but I'll say it anyhow: I'm certainly not saying that all divorces come about any one particular way - each has its own set of circumstances. But we've all witnessed/experienced those relationships that die a slow death...or even come to a sudden end...because one or both parties gave up once the honeymoon period was over and a little trouble came along.)

[PrettyBoy]

My parents have been married for 44 years. When my brother got married my dad just told him that if he's not willing to sacrifice, don't get married. That't who I got that from.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Yeah, I mean its about roses, breakfast in bed, a large house with a white picket fence, and doing EVERYTHING together!!!

lol

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by susan314

You hit the nail on the head here!

I do think that it can be a good thing that some of the societal stigma of divorce is gone. (For example, 50 years ago, a person may have stayed with a chronically unfaithful or abusive partner just to avoid the stigma of divorce. The stigma being gone gives that person more options.)

That said, I think that we (as a society) have went a little too far to the opposite extreme. There are people who think that "good" marriages don't have rocky patches, that "good" couples never fight or disagree, etc. So, some of those people give up at the first sign of a problem. When the "giving up" occurs, they might not necessarily run to the divorce lawyer, but they may start withdrawing emotionally from the marriage...once one partner starts to "give up" mentally, its hard to reverse that deterioration.

All couples disagree occasionally. All marriages occasionally go through rough patches. While a person shouldn't be subject to chronic and vicious arguing, its certainly not realistic to think that a person will never argue with their spouse either. I always chuckle when a relative newlywed expresses concern because they "just had their first fight" - honey, it was bound to happen eventually. Arguing isn't the problem - its how the couple argues that is a problem. (Does it get violent? Do they hold grudges? Do they fight fair? etc.)

(Note - it should go without saying, but I'll say it anyhow: I'm certainly not saying that all divorces come about any one particular way - each has its own set of circumstances. But we've all witnessed/experienced those relationships that die a slow death...or even come to a sudden end...because one or both parties gave up once the honeymoon period was over and a little trouble came along.)

Some of the articles I read from Gary Chapman and others said that "good marriages" do argue and have disagreements, but they fight fair. They keep the gloves up and don't hold onto the neck. Moreover, the fighting is actually funny from outsiders, not belittling, but actually hilarious...

My husband and I are beginning to get use to each others mood swings and we argue and fight that way... It diffuses many a situation fast. But it's those little things that we make it work.

How do people get to that: EVOLUTION--through Natural Selection...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

My parents have been married for 44 years. When my brother got married my dad just told him that if he's not willing to sacrifice, don't get married. That't who I got that from.

I'm not speaking to you!

J/K

[cheerfulgreek]

Good night all. I enjoyed chatting with you.

CG

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I'm not speaking to you!

J/K

lol

Whoa! I was going to bed. What happened?