Life's short, get a divorce

[EE-BO]

My theory is that it is a matter of living in a society with more choices.

What choices did the average wife have 50 years ago with a high school education and a work force that was heavily dominated by men when it came to careers that paid enough to provide for a family? What of the social stigma of divorce? (which I think arose from a matter of the not entirely inaccurate perception that at the time a bad marriage was better than being divorced.)

I think divorce is more common now because both parties in a marriage are more likely to have the education and opportunities to find a better life if they are not getting what they want/need/deserve out of marriage.

Granted, with that comes an element who surely give up too soon because they can or don't take marriage seriously- but that is their loss in the long run.

I see this phenomenon as potentially positive. It is a reflection of the emerging reality in which both partners in a marriage have a more equal obligation to perform because there is not one partner who is completely dependent on the other for a real life.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

My theory is that it is a matter of living in a society with more choices.

What choices did the average wife have 50 years ago with a high school education and a work force that was heavily dominated by men when it came to careers that paid enough to provide for a family? What of the social stigma of divorce? (which I think arose from a matter of the not entirely inaccurate perception that at the time a bad marriage was better than being divorced.)

I think divorce is more common now because both parties in a marriage are more likely to have the education and opportunities to find a better life if they are not getting what they want/need/deserve out of marriage.

Granted, with that comes an element who surely give up too soon because they can or don't take marriage seriously- but that is their loss in the long run.

I see this phenomenon as potentially positive. It is a reflection of the emerging reality in which both partners in a marriage have a more equal obligation to perform because there is not one partner who is completely dependent on the other for a real life.

I think this is true to an extent, but why do people think the grass is greener on the other side? I can see getting a divorce if cheating, mental or physical abuse is involved, but why get a divorce for anything else. Work it out. Why even marry again, because now you have to get used to a whole new set of issues the new spouse may have. I would rather stay with the original spouse since I would be used to his issues.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I think this is true to an extent, but why do people think the grass is greener on the other side? I can see getting a divorce if cheating, mental or physical abuse is involved, but why get a divorce for anything else. Work it out. Why even marry again, because now you have to get used to a whole new set of issues the new spouse may have. I would rather stay with the original spouse since I would be used to his issues.

I looked for research statistics on this but they differ greatly. I can say that the vast majority of people I know who are divorced got divorced because of one of the three reasons you mentioned and that none of them went into the marriage or the divorce lightly. Of course that's not a scientific sample.

Divorce is a traumatizing and difficult experience for everybody involved. To counter the question "Why get divorced for anything else?".. wellllll, do you want to spend every day for the rest of your life living with someone you don't speak to and don't like because they either changed drastically after getting married or weren't honest with you about who they really were before you married? Would you want to forego having children because your spouse decided after you got married that he/she didn't want children? Would you be able to stay married to someone who had a drastic change in their religious beliefs after marriage? Do you know what it's like to never be able to relax in your own home because you and your spouse can't be in the same room together without arguing? Or to sleep on a couch for 6 years because your spouse angers you so much that you can't sleep in the same bed with them? Or, to suggest marriage counseling and have your spouse refuse because "it's your problem you're not happy in this marriage?" It's not easy to categorize every reason into something acceptable. As for second marriages, I think that most of the time, people think they have learned something from the first time around and won't make the same mistakes again. Sometimes they're wrong, sometimes they make different mistakes. Lastly, when our society began the institution of marriage, life expectancy was much shorter, so people didn't have to be married nearly as long!

[AKA_Monet]

Somewhere, the stats show that the divorce rate increased with the passage of the "no fault" divorce, where one can divorce on a whim. That was either late 1950s or early 1960s.

There are "Covenant Marriages" in several states. Interestingly, when they give you a certificate for a Covenant Marriage License, you can still get a divorce, but you pay the laywers 10X more than what you would regularly pay.

But in general, our society is not taught how to be with each other. It's like McDonald's Hack in the Back Christmas new toy gleem that only lasts 24-28 hours.

I will be nearing 4 years of maritial bliss And yes, my husband absolutely drives me nuts. But, I found that we are so close that if I lost him due to divorce, it will be like my entire insides would be ripped out.

My opinion is it also depends on the belief of the maritial family... My folks have been together for nearly 50 years. And I strongly believe it. Whereas, my brother who is divorced with a son doesn't share my beliefs.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Somewhere, the stats show that the divorce rate increased with the passage of the "no fault" divorce, where one can divorce on a whim. That was either late 1950s or early 1960s.

There are "Covenant Marriages" in several states. Interestingly, when they give you a certificate for a Covenant Marriage License, you can still get a divorce, but you pay the laywers 10X more than what you would regularly pay.

But in general, our society is not taught how to be with each other. It's like McDonald's Hack in the Back Christmas new toy gleem that only lasts 24-28 hours.

I will be nearing 4 years of maritial bliss And yes, my husband absolutely drives me nuts. But, I found that we are so close that if I lost him due to divorce, it will be like my entire insides would be ripped out.

My opinion is it also depends on the belief of the maritial family... My folks have been together for nearly 50 years. And I strongly believe it. Whereas, my brother who is divorced with a son doesn't share my beliefs.

Sorry to double post, but I'm very interested in these covenant marriages... I haven't heard of anything like this before...can you direct me to some more information?

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by AChiOhSnap

Sorry to double post, but I'm very interested in these covenant marriages... I haven't heard of anything like this before...can you direct me to some more information?

Covenant marriages are kind of insane. It's sort of like the state taking a similiar approach to the Catholic church - it requires a lot more premarital counseling and divorce is only allowed for certain reasons. The Wiki article on it has a few sites with more information - and also brings up an interesting point. If I get married in Louisiana in a covenant marriage, nothing is to stop me from getting a divorce in Minnesota or some other state that doesn't have them.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

Covenant marriages are kind of insane. It's sort of like the state taking a similiar approach to the Catholic church - it requires a lot more premarital counseling and divorce is only allowed for certain reasons. The Wiki article on it has a few sites with more information - and also brings up an interesting point. If I get married in Louisiana in a covenant marriage, nothing is to stop me from getting a divorce in Minnesota or some other state that doesn't have them.

Wow. I read the Wiki article and I'm Googling more info on covenant marriages as I post. I've never heard about this kind of arrangement before tonight. It's very interesting, to say the least. Thanks for the info.

[Educatingblue]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I will be nearing 4 years of maritial bliss And yes, my husband absolutely drives me nuts. But, I found that we are so close that if I lost him due to divorce, it will be like my entire insides would be ripped out.

My opinion is it also depends on the belief of the maritial family... My folks have been together for nearly 50 years. And I strongly believe it. Whereas, my brother who is divorced with a son doesn't share my beliefs.

I feel the same way. My parents have been married for almost 30 years and me and my husband who are Catholic did the premarital counseling (we were there for the entire year-long engagement) and are in it for the long haul.

As other posters have mentioned, a lot of people are set financially and think it is ok to run at the first sign of trouble. Marriage is tough and you will have problems...the big issue is being mature enough and have enough faith to know that no matter what you will make it through.

[Drolefille]

Pre-Cana, the Catholic church's premarital counseling (or at least what it's called around here) is such a great idea. One of my career goals to do that both as a volunteer for my parish and as a part of my secular practice.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I looked for research statistics on this but they differ greatly. I can say that the vast majority of people I know who are divorced got divorced because of one of the three reasons you mentioned and that none of them went into the marriage or the divorce lightly. Of course that's not a scientific sample.

Divorce is a traumatizing and difficult experience for everybody involved. To counter the question "Why get divorced for anything else?".. wellllll, do you want to spend every day for the rest of your life living with someone you don't speak to and don't like because they either changed drastically after getting married or weren't honest with you about who they really were before you married? Would you want to forego having children because your spouse decided after you got married that he/she didn't want children? Would you be able to stay married to someone who had a drastic change in their religious beliefs after marriage? Do you know what it's like to never be able to relax in your own home because you and your spouse can't be in the same room together without arguing? Or to sleep on a couch for 6 years because your spouse angers you so much that you can't sleep in the same bed with them? Or, to suggest marriage counseling and have your spouse refuse because "it's your problem you're not happy in this marriage?" It's not easy to categorize every reason into something acceptable. As for second marriages, I think that most of the time, people think they have learned something from the first time around and won't make the same mistakes again. Sometimes they're wrong, sometimes they make different mistakes. Lastly, when our society began the institution of marriage, life expectancy was much shorter, so people didn't have to be married nearly as long!

AGDee, you make some very valid points, but I wouldn't marry a guy that I didn't think would be a great husband for me. Of course, I would make sure he and I shared the same family values. I've never been married, but I'm sure it can be hard. Through all the trials and tribulations that come with marriage, there are some positive things also, and I think a couple really should work through the negative things by focusing on the positive. Marriage is a blessing from God and anything from God is always good. That means marriage is good, it's the people in the marriage that make it bad. If a couple doesn't want to work it out and then divorce, then why even get married again to someone else. What's the point? Of course I don't think anyone should be miserable in a marriage, but it's never going to get better if both are not willing to work at it. It takes two. If one is willing and the other one isn't, of course it's not going to work. I just really think our generation is very selfish and are not willing to sacrifice. Marriage is a sacrifice. The Bible says for men to love your wives like Jesus loved the Church and gave himself for it. That's sacrifice. So through the trials and tribulations, I'm just a believer that if a couple is willing to work together and sacrifice for one another, it can work, even through the bad times.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

AGDee, you make some very valid points, but I wouldn't marry a guy that I didn't think would be a great husband for me. Of course, I would make sure he and I shared the same family values. I've never been married, but I'm sure it can be hard. Through all the trials and tribulations that come with marriage, there are some positive things also, and I think a couple really should work through the negative things by focusing on the positive. Marriage is a blessing from God and anything from God is always good. That means marriage is good, it's the people in the marriage that make it bad. If a couple doesn't want to work it out and then divorce, then why even get married again to someone else. What's the point? Of course I don't think anyone should be miserable in a marriage, but it's never going to get better if both are not willing to work at it. It takes two. If one is willing and the other one isn't, of course it's not going to work. I just really think our generation is very selfish and are not willing to sacrifice. Marriage is a sacrifice. The Bible says for men to love your wives like Jesus loved the Church and gave himself for it. That's sacrifice. So through the trials and tribulations, I'm just a believer that if a couple is willing to work together and sacrifice for one another, it can work, even through the bad times.

Just because the Bible says people should do something doesn't mean they do. See thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness...

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

Just because the Bible says people should do something doesn't mean they do. See thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness...

And there's a consequence when you kill, steal and bear false witness. Just like the marriage won't work if Christ isn't in that marriage.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

And there's a consequence when you kill, steal and bear false witness. Just like the marriage won't work if Christ isn't in that marriage.

That's a stupid, ignorant thing to say. There's a lot of atheists who are married with working marriages. Lower divorce rates than a lot of religious people too.

Are you the CG from Minnesota? I think you are. Lots of people here get divorced because the wife isn't the sexy Targetron she was at 23. Don't worry, though, they still go to church with their new mistress.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

AGDee, you make some very valid points, but I wouldn't marry a guy that I didn't think would be a great husband for me. Of course, I would make sure he and I shared the same family values. I've never been married, but I'm sure it can be hard. Through all the trials and tribulations that come with marriage, there are some positive things also, and I think a couple really should work through the negative things by focusing on the positive. Marriage is a blessing from God and anything from God is always good. That means marriage is good, it's the people in the marriage that make it bad. If a couple doesn't want to work it out and then divorce, then why even get married again to someone else. What's the point? Of course I don't think anyone should be miserable in a marriage, but it's never going to get better if both are not willing to work at it. It takes two. If one is willing and the other one isn't, of course it's not going to work. I just really think our generation is very selfish and are not willing to sacrifice. Marriage is a sacrifice. The Bible says for men to love your wives like Jesus loved the Church and gave himself for it. That's sacrifice. So through the trials and tribulations, I'm just a believer that if a couple is willing to work together and sacrifice for one another, it can work, even through the bad times.

Sweetheart, ADGee has been through a lot and has a different life experience from you.

Do not say what you won't do when you have not been married. You never know until it is actually done... And believe me, the comment on the picture is VERY EASY to do. But the longterm repercussions are costly. However, when caught in a bad marriage and no fault of your own like several GC'ers, then you have to find strength to carry on.

If you do believe in God and are a Christian, the you have to KNOW Phillipians 11:17. God will give you what you can bare for several reasons.

You can enjoy the good times, but you must endure the bad times if you are to survive...

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Sweetheart, ADGee has been through a lot and has a different life experience from you.

Do not say what you won't do when you have not been married. You never know until it is actually done... And believe me, the comment on the picture is VERY EASY to do. But the longterm repercussions are costly. However, when caught in a bad marriage and no fault of your own like several GC'ers, then you have to find strength to carry on.

If you do believe in God and are a Christian, the you have to KNOW Phillipians 11:17. God will give you what you can bare for several reasons.

You can enjoy the good times, but you must endure the bad times if you are to survive...

I know. It's hard for me to speak on it when I haven't done it, but a lot of people who have been married for 30, 40 and 50 years don't have a recipe for a successful marriage. They sacrifce and work it out.