Universities Under Investigation Re: Handling Sexual Assault

[honorgal]

This is an all too typical representation of what our college "rape crisis" looks like.

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C422124157.PDF

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Of course I do.

Men and women are having lots of boozy sex with each other on college campuses. This should be a good thing in the eyes of the campus feminists. And the men certainly aren't complaining. But some of the women are. Not only are they complaining, they are insisting that men have to change, become more chivalrous, treat women with the respect they deserve. It's almost comical. Almost. But keep telling us that we're pretty much the same.

Genius, that is gender inequality, patriarchy, and sexism like I said in my previous post.

That is not gender differences and biology. "Gender differences" means socially created differences between women and men. "Biology" means biological distinctions. Both gender differences and biological differences are exaggerated.

Gender inequality is about disparities like what you are typing about. Any form of difference isn't the problem. The problem is the origin and outcome of the differences.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Genius, that is gender inequality, patriarchy, and sexism like I said in my previous post.

That is not gender differences and biology. "Gender differences" means socially created differences between women and men. "Biology" means biological distinctions. Both gender differences and biological differences are exaggerated.

Gender inequality is about disparities like what you are typing about. Any form of difference isn't the problem. The problem is the origin and outcome of the differences.

Oh goody, you passed Gender Studies 101 with flying colors.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Drew Sterrett and other college men like him are systematically being denied even a modicum of due process. And as we've been told ad nauseum for weeks, there are so many more victims who just haven't come forward yet. Wait til the college beauracacy really gets going on tackling this "crisis".

The ends always justifies the means though.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Oh goody, you passed Gender Studies 101 with flying colors.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Drew Sterrett and other college men like him are systematically being denied even a modicum of due process. And as we've been told ad nauseum for weeks, there are so many more victims who just haven't come forward yet. Wait til the college beauracacy really gets going on tackling this "crisis".

The ends always justifies the means though.

[amIblue?]

honorgal, you state that the on campus rape statistics are "made up." What is your source for the "true" statistics? Show us the money, so to speak.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

honorgal, you state that the on campus rape statistics are "made up." What is your source for the "true" statistics? Show us the money, so to speak.

The hysteria crowd gets their stat from ONE online survey with an expansive definition of the meaning of sexual assault. In fact, the authors of the survey claimed that an intoxicated person can't give consent to sexual contact. Whadaya know, I've been raped!!! What a crock.

The latest DOJ findings equate to about 1 in 40 college student rapes/sexual assaults. That number is falling, not rising. And it's higher for non students which makes the hysteria even more suspect. Don't non-college women deserve protection? Why don't we throw out the constitution and due process for the non college men too?

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vvcs02.pdf

Look, 1 in 40 is too many. But it's not a growing epidemic . So there's no need to vastly inflate the numbers and throw out due process for men on our campuses. Unless that's the real goal of whipping up hysteria.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Thank you for correcting my stupidity and teaching me something.

It took a few posts to get you here but you are quite welcome.

Perhaps you are a troll and DeltaBetaBaby had you figured out. You are typing to me about fairness to men and fairness to the accused perpetrator. That is what I have been typing about throughout this thread...you are late. Again, this back and forth between you and me came about because you unfoundedly believed this topic is about mere differences between genders and biological differences. You needed a Gender 101 course and now you are pretending you already knew all of that stuff. We wouldn't be having this discussion if you already knew this and didn't attempt to rebut my "gender inequality, sexism, and patriarchy" comment.

Originally Posted by honorgal

In fact, the authors of the survey claimed that an intoxicated person can't give consent to sexual contact. Whadaya know, I've been raped!!! What a crock.

You do know that concept did not originate with the authors of that survey, right?

General comment not in response to honorgal: I generally disagree that intoxicated (yet conscious) people cannot consent to sex and I believe that should be applied to women as well as men. However, since most sexual assaults and rapes are not random acts committed by strangers, there is potential for improvement when women and men focus on safety, reducing the celebration of risky behaviors, and ending "slut shaming".

Originally Posted by honorgal

Don't non-college women deserve protection? Why don't we throw out the constitution and due process for the non college men too?

ETA: College campuses are often a microcosm of society. There are similar dynamics outside of college campuses.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

Posting the case report is unbiased, factual information sharing. It is part of the information that was used to determine whether or not there was enough evidence for a criminal case. The State Attorney deemed there was not enough evidence.

I do not know enough about Title IX procedure to comment on whether or not FSU followed Title IX protocol or not. I had hoped to learn what other people around the country thought and on what their opinions were based. Accusing me of posting links in order to defend FSU is as accurate as if I had accused you of defending the accuser by posting articles from Jezebel and the NYT. I posted the analysis of the case report from Tomahawk Nation because it gave a brief synopsis of the over 240 pages of transcript, which I was afraid some people wouldn't take/have the time to read. I posted it with the caveat that it was biased.

Journalism (I do not equate Tomahawk Nation or Jezebel with journalism) has become less fact reporting without opinion, and more opinion sharing with facts used to support that opinion. I think that most of us can read the facts and form our own opinions. It's too bad the media doesn't seem to think so.

I find the second link you posted offensive and victim-blaming. This type of thing is exactly why women don't come forward when they've been raped. No matter what happened that night, she obviously walked away traumatized enough to go to the hospital and report to the PD, and for that, she gets torn apart, accused of lying, and her sexual history is up for public discussion? Not okay.

As for my thoughts on the case...the documents are interesting, but I am not an expert, and obviously seeing a written statement is not the same as interviewing a witness. So here are some initial impressions, but they come with that caveat:

1) The men involved read to me as disrespectful of women and female sexuality. Popping into someone's room to ask if you can have sex with her too is pretty sleazy. Does that make someone a rapist? Not necessarily, but it makes you a person who shares some qualities with rapists.

2) The men lied about part 1, and later admitted they had. Again, sleazy.

3) The woman's story is obviously confusing and changes from interview to interview. I am not going to try to guess whether that's a result of trauma, alcohol, or malice and/or how reliable or unreliable that makes her.

3a) If 3 can be attributed to alcohol alone, then she was too drunk to give consent.

4) I don't know the race of the accuser, but there is a long and sordid history in this country of white women accusing black men of sexual assault. That gives me pause on drawing conclusions.

5) No matter what actually happened, it is a problem that when the police went to FSU, they were intercepted by the athletic department, and that members of the athletic staff volunteered to act as representatives for the football players. That alone raises giant red flags and justifies further investigation by a disinterested party.

[FSUZeta]

As stated in the records, the accuser is white. Her blood alcohol level registered at .048, which is not considered intoxicated in Florida.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

As stated in the records, the accuser is white. Her blood alcohol level registered at .048, which is not considered intoxicated in Florida.

Thank you. I had it in my head that she was white, but must have skipped over it when I went back to confirm.

And do you mean by standards for driving? Or are there other state laws that address this?

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by honorgal
Thank you for correcting my stupidity and teaching me something.

I have posted on many message boards. Some where we debated very controversial and heated topics.

Never seen anyone do this before. Is this normal behavior? Good grief. You must be a very insecure person, Dr. Phil.

[DrPhil]

ETA: Speaking of "normal behavior" for message boards: Honorgal does seem to have an ax to grind that she/he will grind regardless. But I won't use that minute message board antic to accuse the person behind that username of being insecure.

[honorgal]

Awfully long winded and meaningless non-answer to my question.

[Quote:]
Originally Posted by honorgal
Thank you for correcting my stupidity and teaching me something.[/quote]

Do you do this a lot, Dr. Phil? I'm asking because if the answer is yes. I'd rather not waste my time on a message board that would allow it. It's rude and extremely childish.

[DrPhil]

Is this your version of a flounce? Have all of your posts been polite and mature? Someone who claims to have read GC for a while and randomly decided to grind an ax in this thread would know that this thread was taking a certain tone once you were suspected of trolling. I don't think you're trolling but you definitely have an ax to grind that prevents you from comprehending anyone other than yourself. I think you're a sock puppet or some equivalent.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Is this your version of a flounce? Someone who claims to have read GC for a while and randomly decided to grind an ax in this thread would know that this thread was taking a certain tone once you were suspected of trolling. I don't think you're trolling but you definitely have an ax to grind that prevents you from comprehending anyone other than yourself.

I've asked you a very simple and specific question three times now, about your rude behavior earlier where you wrote something and pretended to be quoting me. I have never posted on a message board where people did that, because if they tried, they got called out for it.

Do you routinely do it, or is it a one time thing?