Depression and Rap?

[SummerChild]

Joan Morgan in "When chickenheads come home to roost" raises many interesting points. In one section, she discusses the culture of hip hop and its widespread mention of alcohol and drug use as examples of some evidence of the depression that AA males often face growing up in these dire times. If I understood her correctly, she thinks that many of these performers are actually very sad and somewhat depressed (or angry) about their life experiences, instead of proud as they verbally indicate, and are dealing with the depression through alcohol and substance abuse. Hence the extensive mention of all kinds of liquor and drugs.

I thought that this was fascinating and probably true. Who can truly be proud of some of these very harsh and sad conditions and life experiences (abandonment by parents, loss of friends to death, etc.) that many have experienced. Also, we all know that another way to deal with sadness is by a little retail therapy. She did not suggest this but it seems to me that the third most discussed element (along with liquor and drugs) is what they can or do buy.

What do you guys think?

SC

[mulattogyrl]

Very interesting! I would have to agree being the hip-hop head that I am . This makes me want to look at lyrics now to back up what she's saying. Does she give examples of this? I'm all intrigued now, lol. I do think our culture deals with depression and anxiety by turning to alcohol and drugs moreso than going to a 'shrink' which has not been looked upon as a positive thing in our world. I think that is slowly changing, but we still have a long way to go, IMO, as far as dealing with our mental health as a people. I think this problem is reflected in the music.

[SummerChild]

I can't think of any lyrics off the top of my head or recall if she used examples. However, I think of many of Tupac's lyrics of the type of thing that she's probably getting at. The juxtaposition of his witnessing depressing events with mention of alcohol and drug use (or wanting to be put out of his misery). I don't profess to be a hip hop person but I have heard a lyric here or there.

SC

Originally Posted by mulattogyrl

Very interesting! I would have to agree being the hip-hop head that I am . This makes me want to look at lyrics now to back up what she's saying. Does she give examples of this? I'm all intrigued now, lol. I do think our culture deals with depression and anxiety by turning to alcohol and drugs moreso than going to a 'shrink' which has not been looked upon as a positive thing in our world. I think that is slowly changing, but we still have a long way to go, IMO, as far as dealing with our mental health as a people. I think this problem is reflected in the music.

[f8nacn]

Having not read her book, I would have to say that I do agree with the post/information provided...Sadly the words to songs in general have an impact on how we deal, how we feel, how we interact, how we view things. So to say that they are masking depression through alcohol, drugs, and/or through material possessions, IMO, is an accurate perception/opinion/statement.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

I haven't read the book. However, I am a hip-hop head and I'd say that I don't think that artists are proud of being from "abandoned by parents, death of friends" etc, however they ARE proud that they SURVIVED these things. I don't think their messages are "It's so great to be from a broken home, don't you wish you had crackhead parents?" But moreso "I came from a hood where all I saw was crackheads, prostitutes and I had to sell drugs to survive, but I made it out alive and now I'm rich."

Do I think that their depressed? Hmmm, probably, but I think MOST Americans are, lol. I think that coming from their backgrounds they have reason to be depressed and just cause to have "issues". I see their communicating it in song no different than someone writing it in their journal or ranting in the "open letter" thread of an internet message board.

[Sophist08edLady]

I have not read the article, however, I would have to be cautious of such a broad generalization of anyone including "rappers". We must remember that rap music is an art form and very often the girls, drugs and alcohol that rappers write about in their music is not always how that person actually lived/lives. I would take the subject matter to the next level to evaluate: does art imitate life or does life imitate art?

[tld221]

i see you SC - i've read morgan's "roost" a couple times - about 3/4th of that book is underlined!

i do think her points are valid on this topic (as she is about 80% of the time, we can PM on that other 20%). black men i think have the most depression no one talks about. however i can see how this can be taken out of context and twisted to prove a point that's not really there.

for example, one of my textbooks claims that rap music is used as a tough exterior to overexert masculinity. now, my textbook says more or less, its passed down angst of the slave mentality and degradation of a black man as a man (ie. being offensively called "boy" among other things). my professor, as a typical over-educated white man, takes it to the extreme, saying, "well you know, its been proven that rap is a cover up for male homosexuality, and its not really talked about openly, so rappers, typically black men, express themselves through rapping and more often than not, are masking a sexual identity they themselves may not want to admit or know how to express."

so while everyone is nodding their heads and scribbling notes (the girl next to me in her margins paraphrased it to "black men-rap-gay?", im like,

ok, so i know i went off-topic, but the point i made (and am trying to get to here) was, cant this reasoning be applied to grunge of the early 90s? or heavy metal? or emo? or pretty much any type of lyrics that commonly talk of alcohol and other drug use, suicide, depression, death, and violence?

his response: well, that can be attributed more to teenage angst...blah blah blah

one big to that. carry on yall.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by Sophist08edLady

does art imitate life or does life imitate art?

I believe its a combination...depending on the artist...they may choose to illustrate their inner struggles, their joys, their pains, their victories...while others choose to portray something that they don't truly know about because they want to go along with the mainstream, that which is being presented by others...its more so my story is worse than your story type of mentality...why I don't know, it just doesn't appear to be logical (to me) to paint a picture for the world that I've gone through all these struggles to sell a record because that's what "the world" wants to hear...Why front about it? Why talk about something that you haven't experienced...or embellish the truth?

[tld221]

Originally Posted by f8nacn

I believe its a combination...depending on the artist...they may choose to illustrate their inner struggles, their joys, their pains, their victories...while others choose to portray something that they don't truly know about because they want to go along with the mainstream, that which is being presented by others...its more so my story is worse than your story type of mentality...why I don't know, it just doesn't appear to be logical (to me) to paint a picture for the world that I've gone through all these struggles to sell a record because that's what "the world" wants to hear...Why front about it? Why talk about something that you haven't experienced...or embellish the truth?

same reason why/how erotica writers "choose to illustrate their inner struggles, their joys, their pains, their victories...while others choose to portray something that they don't truly know about because they want to go along with the mainstream." some spit the realness, and others "talk about something that you haven't experienced...or embellish the truth."

grabs attention, makes money, keeps you coming back for more.

[Sophist08edLady]

Originally Posted by f8nacn

Why front about it? Why talk about something that you haven't experienced...or embellish the truth?

Because the reality is that it sells records...money, women, bling, popp'in Cris and sipp'in Henni in the VIP room . These images have been pumped into the brains of our youth as a symbol of success. The youth are the number one consumers of music CDs, so the images are portrayed to attract and impress the consumer (hence the immature images of so-called status). Therefore, I believe that yes, we do have a lot of undiagnosed depression in the AA community, however, and again I did not read the book so I do not know if the research data was presented on this study, but there would have to be strong quantifiable evidence to link depression to rap music.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by Sophist08edLady

there would have to be strong quantifiable evidence to link depression to rap music.

That is very true...however, when I was in college I remember taking a class and one of my professors said that those paying for the research to be done will always get the results that THEY are looking for, not always the "truth".

[Sophist08edLady]

Originally Posted by f8nacn

That is very true...however, when I was in college I remember taking a class and one of my professors said that those paying for the research to be done will always get the results that THEY are looking for, not always the "truth".

In some ways this may be true, but we are talking about a human subject study not "1 out of 10 people choose Coke over Pepsi". There are guidelines and ethical ramifications for those who tamper with the results of studies. I know that sometimes numbers can be "tweeked", but I am a true beliver in scientifical inquiry, a true researcher presents the facts no matter what they may be...In God I trust, all others must bring data ! I would def like to see the data on a study about depression and rappers. From the excerpts of the book on Amazon, it does not appear that Ms. Morgan is a researcher, rather she is a journalist. Journalists often get paid to sensationalize situations, stories, or reports to make them interesting and worthy to sell. Nonetheless, it appears that this book may be a good read for entertainment.

[SummerChild]

Originally Posted by Sophist08edLady

In some ways this may be true, but we are talking about a human subject study not "1 out of 10 people choose Coke over Pepsi". There are guidelines and ethical ramifications for those who tamper with the results of studies. I know that sometimes numbers can be "tweeked", but I am a true beliver in scientifical inquiry, a true researcher presents the facts no matter what they may be...In God I trust, all others must bring data ! I would def like to see the data on a study about depression and rappers. From the excerpts of the book on Amazon, it does not appear that Ms. Morgan is a researcher, rather she is a journalist. Journalists often get paid to sensationalize situations, stories, or reports to make them interesting and worthy to sell. Nonetheless, it appears that this book may be a good read for entertainment.

Hi Soror, I don't think that Joan Morgan is presenting the information from the viewpoint of a research study but moreso from her own viewpoint as what she calls herself - a hip hop feminist if i recall correctly (or maybe i'm confusing that with another book). At any rate, it's basically a book about her thoughts about hip hop. I don't think that she means it to be a publication of any results of a research study.

I can appreciate the desire for concrete evidence as I was an engineer and scientist in my former life, however, I think that this book is more of the flavor of an extended editorial from a "self-proclaimed hip hopper."

SC

[SummerChild]

Hi Soror,

I hear you. What made me think that Joan might have a point is that it seems more serious to actually abuse alcohol and drugs than merely making up the act of doing it and putting it in a song or say the internet thread, for example. I agree that if they aren't actually abusing the substances then it isn't an issue. I guess the assumption is that they are doing what they say that they are doing, which may not be the case as Soror Sophist08ed pointed out.

I guess the issue then is whether they are actually abusing drugs and alcohol as they claim and if so, what is the reason, if any? If not, then it's all a sham and no need for concern. lol.

SC

Originally Posted by SKEEphistAKAte

I haven't read the book. However, I am a hip-hop head and I'd say that I don't think that artists are proud of being from "abandoned by parents, death of friends" etc, however they ARE proud that they SURVIVED these things. I don't think their messages are "It's so great to be from a broken home, don't you wish you had crackhead parents?" But moreso "I came from a hood where all I saw was crackheads, prostitutes and I had to sell drugs to survive, but I made it out alive and now I'm rich."

Do I think that their depressed? Hmmm, probably, but I think MOST Americans are, lol. I think that coming from their backgrounds they have reason to be depressed and just cause to have "issues". I see their communicating it in song no different than someone writing it in their journal or ranting in the "open letter" thread of an internet message board.

[Gods Ivy]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

I can't think of any lyrics off the top of my head or recall if she used examples. However, I think of many of Tupac's lyrics of the type of thing that she's probably getting at. The juxtaposition of his witnessing depressing events with mention of alcohol and drug use (or wanting to be put out of his misery). I don't profess to be a hip hop person but I have heard a lyric here or there.

SC

Jay z has some as well. I think he is facing his fear of being in a committed relationship in song cry. I reference his mother's discipline not being able to replace the feels of his pops leaving him. Also he talks about his paranoia to love because of it.