Question about UCLA Recruitment

[ggforever]

This has been bugging me the last few weeks so I thought I would ask the experts.

I was at a bowl game and was talking to a darling young woman and her mother. The young woman is a freshman at UCLA and was talking about how big it was and fitting in. I asked if she had gone through sorority recruitment. She said that she had gone through recruitment and was asked back to preference by three houses but had dropped out.

At that point, mom stepped in and launched into a diatribe about sororities and how expensive they were. She said her daughter was crushed when mom and dad said they could not afford the cost. (I won't even go into the cost of the trip they were on.) I told her I thought they were very cost effective after the first year. Mom stated that ALL the sororities cost the same (cannot imagine that one) and that it was an extra $4,000 a year. I told her the cost probably included the meals as well and mom declared that meals were over and above the $4,000. At this point, I was not going to argue with someone that I would never see again, but something seems off.

The young woman said that several hundred women dropped out of recruitment when they found out the cost. Something seems REALLY off. Can someone clarify?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Mom is trying to save face because special snowflake didn't get invited back to the top chapters.

[crescent&pearls]

I think your instincts are probably good- the PNM and the parents probably weren't well informed about the actual costs and/or the number of women who drop out of recruitment solely because of the cost. The number of women who dropped out is probably closer to 110-120 than hundreds.

What always makes me a little crazy about that is Preference Round/Bid day is not the time to be removing yourself from the process if $$$ is an issue for you (or your parents.) Ask those questions BEFORE recruitment and at the ORIENTATION. The Greek Life Office, the Panhellenic Exec officers and the recruitment counselors should all be able to give a PNM a pretty accurate idea of what to expect- not details that are chapter specific, but a good ballpark figure. They want you to be informed, they are not trying to keep it a secret. It's not a case of "if you have to ask you can't afford it" - it's more of a matter of if you didn't get the facts it's because you weren't paying attention or you didn't bother to ask!

I would imagine that nearly every PNM at UCLA has participated in multiple HS extra and co curricular activities like cheer leading, sports, choir, drama, music etc. that involved travel expenses and uniforms etc, and went to social events such as prom and senior banquet, while maintaining a typical teenager social life i.e. going to movies, eating out etc. If you could handle that, you can probably afford to be in a sorority if you're willing to make it a priority and budget carefully.

[DubaiSis]

Well, we know it's bull because HUNDREDS of girls didn't drop out of rush for all reasons combined.

[BlueOwl]

My daughter graduated from UCLA last June 2012. I actually saved the New Member Financial Agreement from when she pledged in Fall 2008. So yes, this data is four years old. But back then,,,,

Live-In YEARLY payment (room, all meals) $9,726.00

Live-out YEARLY (yes, girls can come over for meals anytime!!) $3,408.00

The live in was about the same as the cost of living in the dorm with a full meal plan.

AND, if indeed that young lady preffed 3 houses, then that is something NEW. Rushees in the past preffed up to 2 houses at UCLA.

[exlurker]

For what it might be worth, UCLA has posted aome "average" cost information:

http://www.greeklife.ucla.edu/housing.html

There's also a separate set of cost info for the NPHC groups, since housing isn't a consideration (as far as I know).

[LAblondeGPhi]

How frustrating.
Yes, the live out dues are expensive, but compare the sorority live-in dues to the average cost of a residence hall living at $13,000! Living in Westwood is expensive, and the live-out dues generally go to general house maintenance, some meals per week (it's usually stated something like 3-5 meals a week), an allowance for favors, and almost all costs associated with social events.

Originally Posted by BlueOwl

AND, if indeed that young lady preffed 3 houses, then that is something NEW. Rushees in the past preffed up to 2 houses at UCLA.

Correct... UCLA uses a two house pref system. They have recently used three time slots to allow chapters to pref smaller parties, but each PNM has two chapters she attends.

Now... one of the little secrets about UCLA's upperclassman quota is that it includes sophomores in with the sizable junior transfer population. Many women do actually have better luck rushing as a sophomore because of this. It could always change, of course, but it's good to know for women in this situation.

Originally Posted by ggforever

The young woman said that several hundred women dropped out of recruitment when they found out the cost. Something seems REALLY off. Can someone clarify?

I have 2011 and 2010 figures for recruitment placement... ChiOLu would probably have the 2012 figures:

2011:
906 - Number of women registered
787 - Women attending Open House
750 - Women attending Round 2
703 - Women attending Round 3
671 - Women attending Preference
609 - Women participating in Bid Matching

2010:
715 - Number of women registered
636 - Women attending Open House
621 - Women attending Round 2
581 - Women attending Round 3
535 - Women attending Preference
499 - Women participating in Bid Matching

[Football Fan]

This past week I was doing a comparison of costs of attendance at California universities. The COA includes tuition, fees, room, board, health fee, miscellaneous. Transportation was also included, which would vary according to distance from UCLA.

COA for a freshmen student living in a dorm with the "average" meal plan:
This is not a student in a Greek chapter....

AT UCLA: $34,000 per year.

[WCsweet<3]

This could go a couple ways. Some examples:

The daughter got chapters that she didn't like and exaggerated to mom. Maybe she was cut before pref and didn't want to admit it. This explains why the number of pref parties was wrong and the young woman could have exaggerated the costs to where she knew her family wouldn't have wanted/could have paid.

Mom couldn't understand why her special snowflake didn't get chosen by her favorites and is vilifying sororities and the experience.

[ChioLu]

I can post the 2012 numbers later this week (long work day today, then leave for a conference). Total registered is just below 2011 #s; percentage receiving a bid is approximately the same.

UCLA is the best "bargain" as far as the costs of living in a sorority house vs. dorms or apartments. The cost of a dorm for a year (double occupancy, 19 meals/week) is in the $15,000 range.
http://map.ais.ucla.edu/go/1005183 (I picked De Neve Hall as a lot of freshmen live here.)
Living Off-Campus: An average 2BR/1BA apartment is in the $2800 range -- so $700/mo if you split with 3 other people = $7000 for 10 months, but most apartments have you sign a year lease. Add in your utilities (gas, electric, internet, cable) and groceries for the year, and you're getting into the $15K & over range. (I'm also a Property Manager & the company I work for has apartment buildings in Westwood Village, so I have actual rent costs. Incidentally, I rented out a 14-unit building last spring and asked all the women if they were interested in Recruitment. Three went thru this past fall -- 2 are Thetas, 1 is a DG!)
Cost of living in a sorority house is in the $8-12K range (depending on the house). THAT IS WITH DUES, INITIATION FEES AND YOUR PIN!

Please don't say that date parties and raids (mixers between fraternities & sororities) put you over the total of dorms or off-campus. EVERY student will have entertainment costs.

ggforever, the people you met do not have correct info, or manipulating the data for an excuse (sour grapes).

The good news is that many of the sororities will be going thru Spring Recruitment (April). UCLA has a lot of students who graduate a quarter early (quarter-system vs. semester-system), so there will be several that will have New Member classes of XX (I need to ask if I can same actual #s). Additionally, AGD will be colonizing in Fall 2013. There are so many opportunities!

[ggforever]

Thanks so much for confirming my thoughts - especially Blue Owl and Chio Lu. I just knew she was working with bad info but mom was almost rabid. When I said that the cost would have included food she was almost down my throat. I feel for the daughter who will miss out on a great opportunity.

[gee_ess]

Total thread hijack but wanted to say that this thread is an example of GC at its best!

[crescent&pearls]

UCLA 2012

851 enrolled in recruitment
123 withdrew
4 released
583 in bid matching
583 offered bids
no declined bids reported.
chapter total is 160

I do understand the sticker shock of housing, tuition and sorority costs at Calif public universities (I've got kids in high school and college) so I guess I can kind of understand where parents who don't know much about what sorority life has to offer could be coming from. In state tuition at the UC schools is up quite a bit from what it was 5-10 years ago. Most in state students are not going to get financial aid grants, they are going to be offered student and parent loans as financial aid. So the finances are something to consider carefully, especially when you factor in the borrowing cost on that grilled cheese sandwich you're eating on your meal plan.

I think UCLA is for a lot of amazing Calif students a "dream" school, and if you get in and you always thought joining a sorority would automatically be part of the dream, I can understand where lack of knowledge leads to unfortunate choices (dropping out or not pursuing informal recruitment) or sour grapes (just bailing on the process and then wondering how you fit in on a big campus where pretty much everyone is amazing.)

The good news is that if you are qualified to attend a UC school, and you want Greek life to be part of your experience, there are a lot of options and the costs are different at every UC school. Cal and UCLA have big, old, traditional Greek housing. UCSD, UC Riverside, Santa Cruz and Merced have no housing. Irvine has newer, university owned Greek housing. Santa Barbara and Davis have smaller, newer, less traditional housing that's very nice. It's worth checking out all the options before you choose which campus best fits your needs and wants list!

[Socalparent]

The admission process to any UC school has drastically changed from even 5 years ago. A student may be admitted to UCLA, rejected at UCSB, Cal, SLO or vice versa. Just because you're admitted to one UC school doesn't mean you'll be admitted to another. I've talked to some parents who feel the whole UC admission process is a crapshoot. Along with the State's budget issues and Sacramento's continued incompetence, the price to attend UC schools has steadily risen each and every year.

That said, UCLA is considered one of the jewels in the UC system. Being accepted into UCLA is huge. There are a lot of "cream of the crop" kids attending UCLA. Probably difficult for some of these cream of the crop kids to realize they aren't so unique and special anymore in a world of unique and special kids.

[crescent&pearls]

^^^ That is very true. There doesn't seem to be any apparent logical reason for why someone gets in at UCLA and not at another campus within the same system these days! Does seem like most students applying to the UC system will apply for at least 3-4 different campuses.

at least the CSU schools are pretty up front about the advantage in the admissions process they give to students within their "local" area. I don't think the UC schools offer that at all. Study hard, boys and girls! Good grades really do matter!