Losing the chapter you joined?

[CRM114]

I never really considered myself to be the type of guy to join a fraternity, but when I came to my current school I wanted to broaden my horizons and get more social so I went out to rush. I found a small chapter that seemed to be full of a good mixture of guys who were close to each other. I pledged and was initiated and it was great at first. But a lot of the guys in the chapter are very ambitious and have pushed our house to get bigger. We've almost doubled membership, and as a result I feel the quality of our members and the chapter has dropped. I also feel like we've become one of the stereotypical "d-bag frats" that I hate, most of our members only care about partying and finding good connections with sororities. At rush, it seems that what connections a guy has or how rich his family is matters more than what type of guy he is. Should I just cut my losses and accept that I probably shouldn't have joined this chapter? I love the ideals of my fraternity but nobody else seems to care about them.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by CRM114

I never really considered myself to be the type of guy to join a fraternity, but when I came to my current school I wanted to broaden my horizons and get more social so I went out to rush. I found a small chapter that seemed to be full of a good mixture of guys who were close to each other. I pledged and was initiated and it was great at first. But a lot of the guys in the chapter are very ambitious and have pushed our house to get bigger. We've almost doubled membership, and as a result I feel the quality of our members and the chapter has dropped. I also feel like we've become one of the stereotypical "d-bag frats" that I hate, most of our members only care about partying and finding good connections with sororities. At rush, it seems that what connections a guy has or how rich his family is matters more than what type of guy he is. Should I just cut my losses and accept that I probably shouldn't have joined this chapter? I love the ideals of my fraternity but nobody else seems to care about them.

Is this a local or a chapter of a national fraternity?

I never advise people to cut their losses, but it could be the case that this organization was never in your heart. It was more a matter of social convenience. In that case, cut your losses.

As for the bolded, it seems as though the men are shifting to become more social which is what you claimed you were looking for. Correct? You made no mention of what attracted you to this fraternity beyond the social. That's always a formula for disaster. Besides, douchebags and undesirables always infiltrate when you expand your membership. It may balance itself out once you all figure out what you need to have a sustainable chapter.

[CRM114]

- It is the local chapter of a national fraternity

- I never joined because of social convenience, I joined to break out of my shell and boost my people skills as well as making some friends in a new environment.

- It's not that they are shifting to become more social, it's just that we're losing any semblance of brotherhood in favor of trying to get a reputation as a party house with party guys and rich guys. The problem is that we are becoming a "frat" rather than a fraternity. As far as I know I'm the only one who feels this way, so if this is the way the majority of the house feels I'll let them go that way, but I will never allow myself to be associated with a stereotypical d-bag frat.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by CRM114

- I never joined because of social convenience, I joined to break out of my shell and boost my people skills as well as making some friends in a new environment.

Different wording for basically the same thing.

Originally Posted by CRM114

- It's not that they are shifting to become more social, it's just that we're losing any semblance of brotherhood in favor of trying to get a reputation as a party house with party guys and rich guys. The problem is that we are becoming a "frat" rather than a fraternity. As far as I know I'm the only one who feels this way, so if this is the way the majority of the house feels I'll let them go that way, but I will never allow myself to be associated with a stereotypical d-bag frat.

Have you all had a meeting where you discovered that you're the only one who feels this way? Have you talked to the brothers off the record to see if some are just buckling to peer pressure?

I get back to my original question, what was it beyond the social that attracted you? What did you feel you could relate to the other brothers and the national entity about? It's difficult to have primarily social interests without eventually geting a reputation as a party house. If you all have service and academic ventures in line with your fraternity's national initiatives, try bringing those to the forefront and the party guys and rich guys will either shape up or ship out.

[ree-Xi]

In every group, there are standout members.

If there is any party of you that still feels your fraternity in your heart, I think you owe it to yourself and your fraternity to see what you can accomplish.

It's risky, but try to find out if there are more brothers that feel the way you do. Seek out leadership roles where your ideas can be taken seriously. Taking the "party frat" route is easy; encouraging your brothers to be men of substance (insert ideals here) takes some work. Challenge them to be better versions of themselves.

If, however, you truly feel that there is no way to save a sinking ship, can you "go alum" early? I'm not sure what year you are, but the fraternity is so much more than just chapter. There can be opportunities for your entire lifetime.

If you are an underclassman, then you need to really weigh the pros and cons, and think about how far you want to go to try to change things. Only you can decide what is too much work. I'd hate to suggest that you leave, but there is no reason to be in a situation that makes you that unhappy.

How is your alum network? Do you know or have access to alums? I am thinking that maybe talking this through with someone outside the inner circle of actives can help.

Mind you, this is a woman's opinion, and I know that guys might handle things differently. I wish you luck and hope that you find your peace.

[CRM114]

I guess I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, but I'm the only one who has tried to do anything about it by voicing my opinion and all it got me was a semester of taking crap from the party guys with no one supporting me.

Dr. Phil: I guess I'm not phrasing it clearly, I didn't join purely for social reasons, I believe in the ideals of my fraternity. Unfortunately most of the brothers seem to see the fraternity as nothing more than an avenue to women and parties.

ree-Xi: Thanks for the alumni suggestion, I've been thinking of that for a while and there have been brothers who just kind of checked out in the past.

I think part of the problem is that my fraternity is at one of the most notorious party schools in the nation so I probably should have suspected that most of the fraternities would be "frats." The thing is, I was sure that this was the house for me. When I joined it was small and fighting for a reputation among the larger fraternities. I think the big problem is that a lot of party guys saw that the house was going to grow and figured they could get into this house easier than the big party houses and just wait until it got bigger. Unfortunately those guys are in control now.

[Gusteau]

I've always believed that the fraternity of "not your typical fraternity guys" never stays that way - whether or not that's I good thing, I don't really know.

A lot of times the party guys in a chapter are the most vocal, but they are rarely the majority. You have to understand that wanting a social outlet and a good reputation on campus are not inherently bad, but they need to be balanced with all of the other aspects of fraternity membership. I'm sure you're not alone in how you feel, but the other members like you aren't speaking out. You need to mobilize your membership and work together to set goals that all the members of your chapter can stand behind.

Alumni are a great resource to demonstrate well rounded fraternity membership - reach out to them and ask them to take an active role in helping the chapter.

Again, its important to have an attitude of wanting to help the chapter and not an attitude of condescension which, quite frankly, probably isn't helping your cause.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I've always believed that the fraternity of "not your typical fraternity guys" never stays that way - whether or not that's I good thing, I don't really know.

Again, its important to have an attitude of wanting to help the chapter and not an attitude of condescension which, quite frankly, probably isn't helping your cause.

I have kind of decided that since I wanted a fraternity of "not your typical fraternity guys," that probably meant that I shouldn't have joined a fraternity. You're not the first person to suggest condescension and I realize I am being condescending, but I feel justified because I have no respect for the d-bag frat boy stereotype and my chapter is adding more and more of those guys each semester. I guess, I am just going to cut ties with the chapter, I do love my fraternity and chapter but I won't allow anyone to say I had a hand in where it is going.

[chopperdude]

wow man, what a tuff situation to cope with. you said two things that stuck with me, a national fraternity and a bad chapter. you like the ideals and are a full brother, right? each year members leave and hopefully get new members and things can change. we had a chapter like that and finally got as you say the dirt bags gone. it was hard to go through but i stuck it out for the same reason you gave. have you talked to you national about the problem? can they get someone down to take a look see? man, i feel for you.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by CRM114

I have kind of decided that since I wanted a fraternity of "not your typical fraternity guys," that probably meant that I shouldn't have joined a fraternity. You're not the first person to suggest condescension and I realize I am being condescending, but I feel justified because I have no respect for the d-bag frat boy stereotype and my chapter is adding more and more of those guys each semester. I guess, I am just going to cut ties with the chapter, I do love my fraternity and chapter but I won't allow anyone to say I had a hand in where it is going.

Dude, you can't care that much since it seems you aren't trying to fix things at all. Speak your mind when it comes to giving out bids and dropping pledges.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by CRM114

I have kind of decided that since I wanted a fraternity of "not your typical fraternity guys," that probably meant that I shouldn't have joined a fraternity. You're not the first person to suggest condescension and I realize I am being condescending, but I feel justified because I have no respect for the d-bag frat boy stereotype and my chapter is adding more and more of those guys each semester. I guess, I am just going to cut ties with the chapter, I do love my fraternity and chapter but I won't allow anyone to say I had a hand in where it is going.

No. Every chapter has many different types of people, and I believe that the Greek experience is valuable for all types of people. I do not consider myself the stereotypical fraternity guy, and though my chapter has changed in some ways since I joined, I still value my membership and the bond I have with my brothers. Furthermore, you can't take a backseat in chapter operations and complain about how things are going. Be the change you wish to see (thanks Gandhi). You are part of a inter/national organization that is much larger than your chapter. Take your love for your organization (something you proclaim, but do not seem to display, by the way) and translate it into action.

[MaggieXi]

Lane Swerve...but you say your chapter is full of "d-bags", well who gave these "d-bags" bids? Who initiated them? Were you not there? Did you not have a voice in the process? Further, have you even gotten to know any of these "d-bags"? Or have you simply passed judgment on them like so many people pass judgment on Fraternities and Greek Life in general?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by CRM114

I never really considered myself to be the type of guy to join a fraternity, but when I came to my current school I wanted to broaden my horizons and get more social so I went out to rush. I found a small chapter that seemed to be full of a good mixture of guys who were close to each other. I pledged and was initiated and it was great at first. But a lot of the guys in the chapter are very ambitious and have pushed our house to get bigger. We've almost doubled membership, and as a result I feel the quality of our members and the chapter has dropped. I also feel like we've become one of the stereotypical "d-bag frats" that I hate, most of our members only care about partying and finding good connections with sororities. At rush, it seems that what connections a guy has or how rich his family is matters more than what type of guy he is. Should I just cut my losses and accept that I probably shouldn't have joined this chapter? I love the ideals of my fraternity but nobody else seems to care about them.

Have you actually spent time getting to know these guys as people, or are you just dismissing them because they fit a stereotype on the outside?

I mean - just because a guy likes to play beer pong, pop his collar and listen to whatever the hip party music is these days, doesn't mean he doesn't also like to (example) watch old 70s sci fi movies or have other interests you might not associate w/ the stereotypical fraternity guy.

Most likely what happened is that for a long, long time they couldn't pledge anyone who WAS more social, now that is happening and they're going a little overboard. Even if the guys are nontypical, it is still a SOCIAL fraternity.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by chopperdude

wow man, what a tuff situation to cope with. you said two things that stuck with me, a national fraternity and a bad chapter. you like the ideals and are a full brother, right? each year members leave and hopefully get new members and things can change. we had a chapter like that and finally got as you say the dirt bags gone. it was hard to go through but i stuck it out for the same reason you gave. have you talked to you national about the problem? can they get someone down to take a look see? man, i feel for you.

Golly gee willikers, TOM EARP. Seems like when your chapter purged the DB members back in the stone age when you were an active, they forgot one DB. Take a good look in the mirror.

AND MODERATORS!!! WHEN THE EFF IS SOMEONE GOING TO BAN THIS EARP SOCK PUPPET????!!!! It's getting really embarrassing.