Who benefited from the No Child Left Behind?

NinjaPoodle · #1 10-19-2009, 04:55 AM

What do you guys think? Did anyone benefit?

christiangirl · #2 10-19-2009, 06:38 AM

Around the time of the Bush/Kerry election I was a sophomore in college. Once, I was riding the shuttlebus to class. The convo on the bus went something like this:

*bunch of girls bad-mouthing Bush*
Girl in red: I voted for Bush.
*bus goes quiet*
Girl in red: My mom is a public school teacher in Houston and she's so grateful. NCLB saved our schools...*praises Bush, says the idea was brilliant, cites a couple of cases she knows about*
*bus is still quiet*
Girl in front: So, has anyone noticed how much it's been raining? The weather's been crazy lately.
*Everyone chimes in and starts talking about the weather.*

I kid you not, that's pretty much how it went. Even though I've volunteered in different school systems (in CA and VA) that's the one and only time I've ever heard anything positive about it. All the teachers I've talked to hate it and my mom (a retired teacher) says many schools have closed over it and and people are terrified that they'll be next if they don't come up to scratch. I've never seen what the progress looks like in Houston so I can't attest...but it was hilarious, so I remember that one well.

Senusret I · #3 10-19-2009, 06:49 AM

I appreciate that NCLB defined what a highly qualified teacher is and in some cases phased out teachers who never intended to complete their certification.

DaemonSeid · #4 10-19-2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle

What do you guys think? Did anyone benefit?

I will take "No" for $500, Chuck.

Kevin · #5 10-19-2009, 07:55 AM

Teachers hate NCLB because it is about helping the students themselves rather than the actual schools. I'm glad someone stopped treating schools and teachers as if they were sacred cows. Either they're working and getting results or they're not and they can be replaced. Simple as that. I'm glad someone had the courage to do this.

In my town, NCLB was part of the impetus which drove the city to pass a massive penny sales tax, raising 700 million to improve our schools (70-percent of the money was spent on inner-city schools). A further 180 million bond issue later passed. It was a good thing, but test scores in many cases didn't go anywhere because while they did replace the crumbling infrastructure, they didn't replace the incompetent faculty and administration... but by NCLB's terms, those peoples' days are numbered.

My father had a teacher at one of these inner-city schools in his office several years ago. Her son had been charged with murder and they were looking to hire him to defend him. She was adamant that money wouldn't be a problem. She said her other son could get as much as was needed. Dad asked what his occupation was and she proudly replied "he's a burglar" as if that was on par with being an MD or lawyer or something. He didn't take the case. I'm guessing that the sort of teacher they employ in these schools (like that one) probably has a bit to do with the sort of kids their churning out.

AGDee · #6 10-19-2009, 09:12 AM

The main difference I've seen is that the first 6 weeks of school are spent reviewing the material that's on the standardized test rather than the actual curriculum for that class. My son's Algebra teacher said straight out at Open House "We won't be using the book until after the MEAPs because we'll be going over what is on the MEAP until they take it" (MEAP is the standardized test Michigan uses). Ok, so my son, who is in honors math won't being learning Algebra until the 6 week mark of school because they are teaching to that test? Ack. That's the whole first half of the first trimester. Don't you think the kids in honors math are going to pass the exam without 6 weeks of review? Ok, so since they are a year ahead of their classmates, it's been a while since they had that original material, but from my recollection, math concepts are pretty cumulative. I would think a kid who can solve a quadratic equation can do long division and understands fractions.

Our schools have drastically changed our curriculum due to increased state graduation requirements. I'm on the fence about whether these requirements are ideal for all students. They now require 4 years of math for all students (even those who earn 1 or 2 high school credits in the middle school by being in honors math and who have no intention of going into anything math related in college), and all students must take Algebra, Geometry and Algebra II/Trig. The fourth course can be a more applied type of math, like business math. They all have to take 3 years of science including either chemistry or physics. They did add a Chemistry in the Community course for kids who just aren't really science oriented.. again, a more applied science class. They all have to take an online course, which I think is probably a good thing with the current trends in academia and the prevalence of computers in ALL jobs. They also went to trimesters which, in theory, would give them more options of classes to take. But then they made a rule that band students and AP classes would all be 1.5 credits a year, so they have to have them all 3 trimesters, which has screwed my daughter out of taking any electives at all her entire high school career. AP classes shouldn't be more credits than other classes. It's ridiculous. We are talking to her band teacher about him waiving one trimester of band each year for her so that she can get these AP classes in and take some of the things she loves (creative writing, journalism, graphic design) too. Since she aspires to be a writer/journalist, it would be nice for her to be able to have some focus on this before she hits college. If she doesn't do this, she would graduate with 6 high school band credits, 5.5 high school math credits, 5 high school social studies credits, 4.5 high school science credits and 4.5 high school english credits. Although she does great in math, she hates it. Calc would be torture to her so she's going for AP Stats instead of AP Calc her senior year. Kids who aren't in band are taking both though. Being in marching band and orchestra band for 4 full years precludes her from being able to be the valedictorian. The girl who will be valedictorian dropped out of band to be able to do it. The issue though, is that many kids just don't have what it takes to complete some of these courses successfully. Not all kids are college material. Some kids aren't capable of it. I can see these kids giving up on school and I think we could see the drop out rate increase as a result.

I will note, for the record, I am not concerned with whether my daughter is valedictorian or not. SHE is the one who freaked out when she found out her academic rival dropped band to be able to take all of the AP courses offered when she, herself, will only be taking 5 of them instead of 6. She was certain she wouldn't be able to get into the school of her choice unless she was the valedictorian. I encouraged her to stay in band because having 5 years of Marching Band (she was invited to start in high school marching band while in 8th grade) shows a dedication and commitment that colleges like to see. Maintaining a 4.0 (non weighted GPA) and doing that, plus earning her Girl Scout Award, and doing all the other extracurriculars she does will only enhance her college application, even if she's "only" salutatorian.

Back to the standardized test thing though.. she was worried one year because she had a lot of absences (all medically excused, really sick that year) and I reassured her "They're not going to kick you out of school, they need your MEAP scores"

Still BLUTANG · #7 10-19-2009, 09:57 AM

[slight hijak]

AGDee, your daughter's predicament sounds similar to mine. i opted out of one AP course to fully pursue an elective throughout hs. i took myself out of the running for top marks. it hurt to see my classmates get more scholarship offers, but at the end of the day i ENJOYED high school - and loved my ultimate college choice. i regret none of it.

[slight /hijak]

DaemonSeid · #8 10-19-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Teachers hate NCLB because it is about helping the students themselves rather than the actual schools. I'm glad someone stopped treating schools and teachers as if they were sacred cows. Either they're working and getting results or they're not and they can be replaced. Simple as that. I'm glad someone had the courage to do this.

In my town, NCLB was part of the impetus which drove the city to pass a massive penny sales tax, raising 700 million to improve our schools (70-percent of the money was spent on inner-city schools). A further 180 million bond issue later passed. It was a good thing, but test scores in many cases didn't go anywhere because while they did replace the crumbling infrastructure, they didn't replace the incompetent faculty and administration... but by NCLB's terms, those peoples' days are numbered.

My father had a teacher at one of these inner-city schools in his office several years ago. Her son had been charged with murder and they were looking to hire him to defend him. She was adamant that money wouldn't be a problem. She said her other son could get as much as was needed. Dad asked what his occupation was and she proudly replied "he's a burglar" as if that was on par with being an MD or lawyer or something. He didn't take the case. I'm guessing that the sort of teacher they employ in these schools (like that one) probably has a bit to do with the sort of kids their churning out.

Not exactly sure what "inner city schools" had to do with this since NCLB messed up school systems top to bottom REGARDLESS of where they were but...uhhh...ok.

You really didn't need to emphasize that.

agzg · #9 10-19-2009, 10:09 AM

My dad (a retired elementary school principle) wasn't a huge fan of the policies. I think he was worried about increasing the stress-levels of his kids because of the added standardized testing (and believe me, in NY state, they KNOW standardized testing as there was already quite a bit before).

His school always did very well on the tests, but he felt like the teachers were suffering because their lesson plans had less flexibility and in turn the students were suffering because they weren't getting as well-rounded an education.

And he was REALLY peeved when they cut funding for a grant about halfway through when he had worked nights and weekends for a year trying to get it. I'm not 100% sure if the school ever got even half of what they were supposed to be able to get with that money - he retired right after the funding was cut (not because of that grant - that was a rough year in a lot of ways and he needed to retire).

33girl · #10 10-19-2009, 10:12 AM

I remember when I was in school - when standardized tests came up, we just walked in that day and were told "no regular classes, you're taking a special test." Which, of course, is the POINT - they're to show how the students are doing. Now, over fear of losing funding, teachers are teaching to the tests. Totally counterproductive.

And for some, non city areas, the school the children are at is the ONLY option, unless you want them on a bus for 3 hours a day. This is why I hate school choice of any stripe - it caters to urban areas and doesn't think about the poor kids out in the country. You can't "weed out" their schools and they usually are doing as much as they can do.

DaemonSeid · #11 10-19-2009, 10:19 AM

Bottom line.

If NCLB only accomplished trying to get students to 'learn' how to take a test and not 'teach' them anything, then really what did it accomplish? How much smarter are kids who had to deal with this mess now than they were before NCLB? Did it help any of them to get into college? It was all about trying to see who could get money and make money and a system set up to help kids fail.

KSig RC · #12 10-19-2009, 10:35 AM

Any teachers who are "teaching to the test" (which is really quite a misnomer, to my mind, but that's another topic altogether) are part of the problem, and any administration that allows this or caters to this is even worse. It's bad, lazy teaching - pure and simple. That's not the fault of the program, is it?

Can we all agree that there should be accountability in education just like in every other profession? Can we all agree that students' abilities should be measured as part of that?

DaemonSeid · #13 10-19-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Any teachers who are "teaching to the test" (which is really quite a misnomer, to my mind, but that's another topic altogether) are part of the problem, and any administration that allows this or caters to this is even worse. It's bad, lazy teaching - pure and simple. That's not the fault of the program, is it?

Can we all agree that there should be accountability in education just like in every other profession? Can we all agree that students' abilities should be measured as part of that?

^^^ agreed.

G-Kue 1911 · #14 10-19-2009, 10:56 AM

The NCLB act also helps SINI (schools in need of improvement) with free after school tutoring from test prep companies like Princeton Review and Kaplan as long as the student receives free or reduced lunch. I agree that this too can be a complete failure if the educator is only teaching the students to pass state exams!

agzg · #15 10-19-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Kue 1911

The NCLB act also helps SINI (schools in need of improvement) with free after school tutoring from test prep companies like Princeton Review and Kaplan as long as the student receives free or reduced lunch. I agree that this too can be a complete failure if the educator is only teaching the students to pass state exams!

Many SINI are nowhere near a Kaplan, Sylvan, or Princton Review, and tutoring is not effective in a distance learning environment.