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Old 10-19-2009, 06:20 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
Are low graduation rates a school's fault? Or the parents' faults? Or society's fault?
Yes.

But any of those three can do something to fix the problem. There are some very enterprising and successful programs aimed at these troubled schools. I think very highly of the KIPP schools which have been able to duplicate their successful methods all around the nation. There are also quite a few highly successful charter and enterprise schools which are taking the same kids who would have failed in public schools and sending them to college.

Of course parents can take charge of their kids' education, but that's not always a viable option in, for example, single parent homes where mom thinks "burglar" is a fine vocation.

And "society"? I don't think blaming "society" should really be a viable option either. What exactly is "society"? A culture? A bad set of circumstances? It seems to me that out of the three, the kid herself has the most control over her circumstances with respect to their "society" or the impact that has upon them.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:45 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Yes.

But any of those three can do something to fix the problem. There are some very enterprising and successful programs aimed at these troubled schools. I think very highly of the KIPP schools which have been able to duplicate their successful methods all around the nation. There are also quite a few highly successful charter and enterprise schools which are taking the same kids who would have failed in public schools and sending them to college.

Of course parents can take charge of their kids' education, but that's not always a viable option in, for example, single parent homes where mom thinks "burglar" is a fine vocation.

And "society"? I don't think blaming "society" should really be a viable option either. What exactly is "society"? A culture? A bad set of circumstances? It seems to me that out of the three, the kid herself has the most control over her circumstances with respect to their "society" or the impact that has upon them.
If KIPP schools were available everywhere, that could make some sense, but they are only in 19 states.. hardly accessible to all kids. The Detroit Public Schools, while failing as a district, do have some incredible specialized schools such as a foreign language immersion school where kids are taught in two languages simultaneously. There are also some great charter schools in the area. The parents who make the effort to get their children into these schools also have to transport them every day because those schools don't have buses. The point is, the parents have to sign their kids up for these schools. The parents have to care enough about their child's education to make that effort to sign them up and get them there. Therefore, those kids have an advantage over some of the others from the start, don't they? A child is not allowed to enroll themselves into a school without parental permission. Maybe they should be?

You and I will always disagree about whether society should be held accountable or not. I think it's insane that there are neighborhoods that aren't safe to walk through. It shouldn't happen anywhere, ever. There should be enough jails, enough police enforcement, enough everything to get criminals off the street and keep our streets safe. It should be the top priority of any society to get dangerous people behind bars.

Yes, there are some rare kids who fight the odds and manage to better themselves despite everything going against them. I think, in most of those cases, somebody believed in them and lit a fire under them to believe in themselves. Some of them never connect with a person who will do that for them. Perhaps some teachers do perform in that role for some kids, but not teachers who have over 200 students a day, who have to spend most of their day managing violence rather than teaching.

I just see it as a much bigger problem than teachers who can't teach.
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