cops

madmax · #1 10-03-2001, 02:34 PM

about a month ago there was about 15 people hanging out at our house. there wasn't any problems, such as noise, complaints from the neighbors, trash, nothing. at about 11 pm, two local cops show up in our living room. They didn't knock, no reasonable cause and no search warrant. They procede to walk through the whole house conducting an illegal search and then leave. no citations, nothing. our brothers are sitting there, thinking "what the F***"

What do you think we should have done?
We dont want to let the cops think that they can illegally search our house at will, but at the same thim we dont want to piss them off and make ourselves a target.

Bro2B · #2 10-03-2001, 03:41 PM

Well, first off, even when it's just guys chilling you have to take care of yourselves. True, it was an illegal search, but how do you know someone didn't file a complaint?

The biggest thing you forgot to do was lock the door or have someone work the door, even if there are only 11-15 people there. Why was the front door unlocked?

Even when you have those small get togethers, you still have to think about those kinds of things, especially if there is underage drinking going on. If everyone is cool and no one bolts for the door, usually things will be ok. I'm 21 anyway so when a party I'm at gets busted, I just sit there, and sometimes even offer the officers a beer.

ZTAngel · #3 10-03-2001, 04:41 PM

An officer is not allowed to walk through a closed door even if it's unlocked. Even if someone had called and complained on you all they still have to knock on the door and be let inside. If I was in your situation, I probably wouldn't have said anything while the cops were there. You might get yourself in trouble if you run your mouth. I probably would've waited for them to leave and then contacted the chief of police or someone in charge.

Tom Earp · #4 10-03-2001, 04:44 PM

mademax, unless there is no complaint filed, they have no right to enter your house!!!

They can come to the door, knock and give a reason they are there. They then can come if they are invited or have a legal search warrent signed by a Judge!

If they see something once the door is open that is illegal, they then have the right right to enter and search.

It sounds like 2 Officers that will bend the rules for themselves.

You can of course file a complaint, but that may get you into hotter water. I would let it go uless it keeps happening!

If it does I would talk with leagal counsel to see what course of action chould be taken!

If continues, then there may be a complaint of police harrasment! That gets even more serious for them legally!

keep us posted!

SigmaChiCard · #5 10-04-2001, 09:40 AM

Well, for one, if you lock the door every time you have friends come over then you're a bit too paranoid. I wouldn't say this exactly justifies feeling the need to lock the doors while in your own home, sounds like Lean on Me, or some $hi+.

Like Tom said though, a cop is outside, never open the door for him, walk out the back and meet him around front or something, I say, unless there is absolutely nothing to hide. Obviously that's a little dodgy, but they will not be coming in the door. I've never gone though this really (I've been at parties with Law school majors when things like this occurred, so I did gain some wisdom there) but I'd file a complaint and make it somewhat vague to avoid getting you in trouble (exclude addy, maybe). That seems pointless maybe, but when it happens again you can prove it's occurred before and not an isolated incident, therefore there is a greater likelihood of the officers being reprimanded appropriately.

But personally, I'm somewhat of a confrontational person, I'd have to ask, "Sir, Is there a problem", "Yes? Really, is there a warrant to search the primises, or are you allowed to just open my door and walk in?" Generally speaking, I'm an elitist asshole with just enough knowledge to cause trouble and frustrate people who wish me ignorant, but when I do all this, I do it in a curious, questioning tone, usually so that I present my point and that I know how things should be, but don't sound like a B!+(#

Anyway, never let them do as they please, many campus cops are on enough of a power trip as it is, I think we college students are here to be arrogant and humiliate others with what we've learned from our recent experiences. I'm just joking, but I hope you know what I mean.

GmuTeke · #6 10-04-2001, 10:03 AM

Had it been my chapter, I would think our president or some ranking officer would step up and say "Excuse me sir, is there a problem?" and try to figure out exactly why the police are in the house. After that, I would have had someone accompany the officers on their (bogus) inspection of the house to make sure they're not poking thier heads into too many places, or (eep) planting things where they shouldnt be.

The1calledTKE · #7 10-04-2001, 10:22 AM

If they didn't cite you for nothing don't worry about it. Its better not to piss off the cops. It happens here all the time. They will come in see a keg or some underager, warn us and be on there way. There is nothing they can do if they are there without a warrent or invitation from someone in the house.

N2 · #8 10-05-2001, 02:06 PM

madmax,

Has it happened again?

Regardless, do not file a compliant, at least not yet. Does your house have video surveillance? If not, GET IT NOW! It's not that expensive. Make sure that the entry points are covered, as well as the common areas. Do not use a multi-camera recorder. Record each camera on one tape. That way you can be selective with which tape you want to use for any particular purpose. Conceal the recorders in a safe. It takes a specific court order to open the safe. Have an erase panic button on the recorders that is secure, but outside the safe. Just to CYA!

When it happens again. Now you have what you need.

Tom Earp · #9 10-05-2001, 04:03 PM

MMax, Checked with one of my best freinds who is still on my old Department!

They do not have the legal right to just walk into you house and do a search or look around!

That is a violations of your Civil Rights no matter what Department they are from!

They have to follow the rules and guidelines just like everyone else!

Keep a wait and see attitude, and if it happens again then there is a real problem!

G8Ralphaxi · #10 10-06-2001, 10:02 PM

hey there...I'm currently a law student at U of Florida and I just took Criminal Procedure last semester. What an eye opener! It's amazing how often the cops take advantage of people just because no one knows their rights. I really believe that high school students should be instructed in their basic legal rights (both in the civil and criminal contexts) - it's such vital information.

Since your fraternity house is your residence, under the law you have a LOT of privacy protections. The cops CANNOT come in without a warrant, except for a few very narrowly defined circumstances.

1. They can come in if you invite them in. IMPORTANT: tell your members NOT to do this! TELL new pledges at the 1st meeting, REMIND brothers at least once a semester! And be careful when talking to a cop because you don't want to give any "implied consent" for them to enter.

When a cop is at the door, your PRESIDENT or other officer should greet them politely and ask what the problem is and if no warrant, CLEARLY STATE that THEY CAN'T COME IN. (SigmaChiCard's idea about walking around from the back of the house is a really great idea) Don't give in to any harrassment from the cop. Even threats to get a warrant and cause more trouble. To get a warrant, the cop has to get a judge/magistrate to authorize it and the cop has to show "probable cause" that you're committing a crime. Basically, the standard of proof requirement and the time and effort involved mean that the cop is unlikely to actually try and get the warrant, and even so, you'll have enough time to "clean up" whatever the problem is. i.e. send the underage drinkers home, turn off the stereo, etc.

2. They can come in SOMETIMES if they see evidence of a crime that was committed or is being committed. So don't leave dead bodies by the front windows. J/K! Seriously though, while the cops have to have a good reason to come in, you don't want to help them. NEVER leave your front door open if you're doing anything other than playing checkers. Also don't leave your windows open, especially in the front of the house. Theoretically a cop has to have a reason to even come on your yard and shouldn't be peering in the windows, but campus police likely have more power over you and if your windows are open and there's a crazy party inside, clearly visible, expect trouble. Also, anything visible from the street is fair game.

3. Sometimes they can come in if there's a complaint Again, this depends on how much power your campus police have (you should have more rights against the city/county cops) and what the nature of the complaint is. Again, an OFFICER should greet the cops at the front of the house and try to ascertain the problem. Very rarely will a complaint actually justify them to enter the house, except if the complaint is repeated (i.e. your fourth noise complaint of the night) or very serious (someone left your party extremely drunk and, God forbid, got into trouble/got hurt).

These rights are guaranteed by the US Constitution and cannot be taken away by local governments or your college. You may have other rights based on local statutes and your college's rules. Make sure to research them and know what your rights are! Seek the help of your National Orgs and your advisors.

Some common sense stuff:

Make sure that whoever you have designated to talk to the cops is:
1) at least 21
2) NOT under the influence of anything
3) fully aware of the importance of being polite, without being a pushover.

The last one is crucial - unfortunately, even if you are perfectly within your rights, being argumentative with the cops will jsut result in disaster. Often the whole problem can be solved by just kissing the cop's a** a little bit. No matter how rude or obnoxious the cop gets, your end of the conversation needs to stick with "yes sir no sir i'm sorry sir you're absolutely right sir we'll take care of it sir!" (or ma'am if appropriate!) Of course don't let them in your house but 9 times out of 10, just telling them you're sorry and will fix the problem (i.e. turn down the music, get your guests to stop parking on the neighbor's lawn, etc.) will get you out of trouble.

Best of luck!

G8Ralphaxi