Moral and Self-Governance Delimma

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Ok, so I go to a pretty tough school, but getting a G.P.A. above a 2.5 is not usually that hard, but it really can be depending on your schedule. Well, its formal recruitment right now, and 5 of our top recruits have a culm below 2.5. Well, my opinion is you can't bid them, because you need to come in with good standing, but everyone else in my colony doesnt think so. According to the code, it doesnt say you have to have a 2.5 to be a member, or to be initiated, but only to be in good standing. So, do you think it is ethical to bid someone and initiate someone below a 2.5? (if we pledge them this semester, school rules say we must initiate them this semester)

[Coramoor]

There are a lot of things to consider in that situation.

Have their grades been going up or down? Why are they considered your top recruites? Do they know about their scholastic obligations once initated? What are your chapters numbers like?

[LPIDelta]

Sorry to hijack...but I wanted to encourage your group to set a standard for what you expect of your members and NEVER veer from it. If your national organization doesn't have a recruitment standard that meets or exceeds the standard for active members, you can set one for your colony/chapter. By setting clear standards, everyone, including potential new members, understands what kind of man you are looking for and it keeps things consistent. There would be no need to constantly have the discussions about what you are looking for each semester.

What you decide now can truly shape the future of your colony/chapter. As a colony especially, you should strive to recruit men better than yourselves. If you want people who realize that academics is their reason for being at college, you probably want to set that standard now.

Good luck!

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Are numbers are low, we have 19 guys, but 12 of us are graduating in the spring. The colony constitution state you need a 2.5, but that was made by the A.O., not us. The code of Beta says you need the GPA required to graduate at your host insititution (2.0). They are freshman, so they have only had one semester, so I can't tell you if there grades went up or down. The school requires a 2.3 to inititiate into any fraternity, so they all have that. They are our top guys, because we know them the best, and like them the best, all 5 of them. They also all are comitted to Beta. However, we don't want to piss any one off, plus integrity is something we want to stay true to, and although 2.5 isnt on Beta's books, it is pretty much suggested. You wouldnt want a member to come in with bad standing. However, these guys otherwise would get a bid in a heartbeat, and we don't want them to be persuaded to go somewhere else where they can join right away...

Originally Posted by Coramoor

There are a lot of things to consider in that situation.

Have their grades been going up or down? Why are they considered your top recruites? Do they know about their scholastic obligations once initated? What are your chapters numbers like?

[BigRedBeta]

My question concerns when you actually initiate your pledges.

Chapter XIII, SECTION 3. states:

Minimum Member Scholastic Requirement: In addition to requirements set forth in Section 2, each chapter should strive to maintain a chapter average equal to or exceeding the local All Men’s Average. In order to achieve that goal, each member is required to maintain a cumulative grade point average of not less than a 2.5 on a four-point grading scale or its equivalent; provided however that any member having at least a 2.5 for the most recent grading period shall be deemed to meet this requirement. Any member who does not maintain the required average shall be required to enroll in an academic assistance program established by the chapter. The chapter will provide a written program subject to approval by the Administrative Office at the beginning of each school year.

Now if you wait until their grades come back from this spring semester and initiate them after that point, you can require that 2.5 (and I would put it into your bylaws so you don't have this question in the future), and then they'll come in as members in good standing.

I guess the only really major thing that might make this a less than an ideal situation is if your chapter uses a shorter pledge program. However, since the GF doesn't put restrictions on length of pledge program, there's really no reason you couldn't extend your pledge program - unless your campus has some rules that prevent that. Also, I suppose that if all the other chapters on your campus have shorter programs, that might hurt you in recruitment on down the line, as other chapters may use that against you.

I suppose that the fact so many of you are graduating that also might put a damper on initiating later, but I think it's probably something that could be managed.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Well, youll right, and that argument has been made, the next sentence after the bold one states

[QOUTE] Any member who does not maintain the required average shall be required to enroll in an academic assistance program established by the chapter. [/QUOTE]

It doesnt say that to be initiated you have to have it, it just means that they will immediately be put on the academic assistance plan. Also, out constitution does have the 2.5 thing, and the academic assistance program in it, however, we never stick to our constitution or bylaws, because they were basically just handed to us by the AO

So, technically, they can be initiated and we even called Steve Becker to confirm it. So, this is a ethical issue, not a rules issue.

Also, Denison requires that all pledges of a fraternity be initiated the semester that they are pledged. We don't stay here over summer, we don't live in our house, and everyone is required to live in dorms on campus. So, we couldnt do it anyways, cause everyone goes home.

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

My question concerns when you actually initiate your pledges.

Chapter XIII, SECTION 3. states:



Now if you wait until their grades come back from this spring semester and initiate them after that point, you can require that 2.5 (and I would put it into your bylaws so you don't have this question in the future), and then they'll come in as members in good standing.

I guess the only really major thing that might make this a less than an ideal situation is if your chapter uses a shorter pledge program. However, since the GF doesn't put restrictions on length of pledge program, there's really no reason you couldn't extend your pledge program - unless your campus has some rules that prevent that. Also, I suppose that if all the other chapters on your campus have shorter programs, that might hurt you in recruitment on down the line, as other chapters may use that against you.

I suppose that the fact so many of you are graduating that also might put a damper on initiating later, but I think it's probably something that could be managed.

[BigRedBeta]

Well, I don't like the initiation rule - I don't the university should be able to tell you when you have to initiate your pledges. I realize the logistical issues for actually carrying it out aren't ideal, but is it really that much of a difference if you were to initiate them a week after, or have them go through initiation at convention?

I also personally think that it's bunk that you don't follow your bylaws. That's what they're there for regardless of who gave them to you. If you aren't going to follow them as written, then change them. I've been in situations where my chapter voted to suspend the rules, and it's a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Might as well change them so you do follow them...

I guess my other question is what type of academic guidelines do you have for pledges? My chapter requires 12/week, of which 6 are supervised by the scholarship chair at the library (so really we only require 6). Everyone leaves and returns as a group. If you do something similar and initiate as late as you feel comfortable, then you can pretty much guarantee they'll end up above a 2.5, and they'll only be initiated for a short time before they get their grades back at which point they'll be in good standing. Put it close enough to finals and they'll be studying their ass off anyways...

I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't have a problem initiating them as they are, but it sounds like the problem is more what happens afterwards. I hope I'm coming up with solutions that minimizes the overlap between the "new initiate" phase and member in bad standing phase. Messing around with the initiation date is one of the few things (only?) that puts them in good standing as quickly as possible after their initiation - so that they can vote in chapter, have full privileges of membership, and things of that nature (b/c really, who wants to get initiated and then immediately be put on an academic program and not get to take part in the newly opened environment in front of them).

[sdbeta1]

What would happen if you simply don't follow Denison's rules and hold them for initiation after grades are released? They need to know that a 2.5 is what they need to get initiated. You can go on and on weighing each side of the issue. What went into them getting bad grades during their first semester? Have they turned things around? Will your chapter help them pull the grades up?

My one question is would you want to pledge and initiate these men under the same circumstances but with a 30-40-50 member chapter?

[a.e.B.O.T.]

1. Bylaws, they are being changed, in fact I am heading up the comittee to do so. We haven't followed them, because we have voted to change them so much, but no one took initiative to actually change the bylaw.

2. During the pledge process we have study tables, however they are for everyone, members and none members. We are 100% haze free which is why we dont have set study tables the pledges MUST come and only pledges

3. I FINALLY convinced not to accept these guys without a 2.5 so these guys will just have to wait till next semester, and they all understood

4. WE GOT NINE GUYS... bids were handed out today. For this campus, 9 is a good number for formal recruitment. For our colony, 9 is FANTASTIC. All of them are awesome and we didnt compromise our standards. So, we are on the right track

[ECUJacob]

Our chapter bylaws state that you have to have a 2.8 GPA to pledge our chapter... which is probably why we've had the top grades on our campus since our recolonization in 2002.

We have several rushees come through every semester that isn't quite up to par. Depending on their year in school, we might take them and we might not. It's much easier for a freshman w/ no credit hours to pull up their GPA than it is for a senior.

[BigRedBeta]

Congrats on a successful rush! That's awesome that you got so many guys, kept your standards, and seemed to keep those potential guys around.

For the record, I can't for the life of me ever considering making someone study as hazing, but I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say about it. I always tend to think of hazing as a degrading act, meant to humiliate. All the definitions at stophazing.org include that as a main qualifier. And study hours certainly are in line with our principles and many of the obligations.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

Congrats on a successful rush! That's awesome that you got so many guys, kept your standards, and seemed to keep those potential guys around.

For the record, I can't for the life of me ever considering making someone study as hazing, but I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say about it. I always tend to think of hazing as a degrading act, meant to humiliate. All the definitions at stophazing.org include that as a main qualifier. And study hours certainly are in line with our principles and many of the obligations.

Some peopleHQ/schools define hazing as anything pledges have to do that actives don't have to do. That's probably what the university is telling aebot's school. Of course, you can then say that receiving presents from your big and having to attend antihazing workshops are hazing. LOL.

[EE-BO]

Great discussion and a.e.B.O.T. I think you have made some solid decisions.

In my experience, as an active at two different chapters (transferred half-way through college), as one who has talked with many other chapters at times and as a current advisor to my old chapter, I have seen the 2.5 GPA for initiation rule both strictly observed and blatantly ignored.

The best accomodation I have found, and one I personally prefer, is to let a man pledge regardless of his scholastic history- but if he fails to make a 2.5 in his pledge semester, then he is held over and has a chance to make a 2.5 the next semester and be initiated with the following pledge class. During that holdover period he is no longer a pledge, but he is not a brother yet either. He will pay dues and participate in all aspects of the chapter except that he may not cast votes in chapter meetings- nor can he participate in any ritual.

It can be hard to stick to these rules when you are in a real life situation wanting to pledge someone who would make a great Beta, but it is my experience that a significant number of men who are initiated with a deficient GPA will very soon be leaving their chapters.

The major reason is obvious- your average parents will see a bad report card, remember that big check they wrote to the fraternity and conclude- rightly or wrongly- that the fraternity is too much of a distraction and force their son to leave.

Other common outcomes are that the student loses financial aid or scholarships and then cannot afford the fraternity. Or he will fail out of school entirely.

If you think telling a man he cannot pledge because of his grades is tough, it is exponentially more difficult to initiate someone into the brotherhood and then have to watch him walk away and resign his membership because he cannot stay.

That is a disservice to the chapter and to the student who has to leave.

A big part of being in a fraternity is learning how to make these kinds of tough decisions that will become commonplace in your adult life. And I congratulate you on the decision you have made and convinced your colony to make.

To address two other questions,

1. A good scholastic chair will start the semester with a calendar of every announced test for each pledge (get a copy of their syllabi) and will keep track of the grades they receive. This not only helps plan events around school, but it allows the chapter to identify and help pledges who are struggling while there is still time for them to salvage their GPA for the semester.

Additionally, in this way you can tell going into finals who is very unlikely to get a 2.5 or better and then hold them over a semester without delaying initiation for the entire class until the following semester.

2. When a chapter or colony is small, it is very tempting to bend certain rules to get the member count up. In my experience, that never works. Never.

It actually has the opposite effect. You devote rush funds to students who are less likely to stick around and be good Betas, and then when they leave early it creates a serious morale issue for the entire chapter- and potentially grave financial issues.

If you bend a firm recruitment rule once, future dishonor of that rule will be expected when other members of the chapter have friends or family who want to join and will require the same special treatment to get it. Refuse them after giving that special treatment to someone else, and you can lose good members very quickly. More than once I have seen small groups of actives leave or at least lose interest in being active participants because they felt slighted in a situation like this.

Best of luck to you in writing the by-laws. It is a tricky balance between practical realities and the need to adhere to certain standards without exception- but in the end it is in the ongoing honoring of the by-laws without frequent changes that they strengthen a chapter. I would only suggest you stick to a very high level of rulemaking and keep it simple. Even things like study hour requirements are best set as a rule- but with specifics left to the decision of EC each year.

[ECUJacob]

^ Great advice, EE_BO. It's always nice to see that there are other advisors out there who "get it".