Moral and Self-Governance Delimma

[Coramoor]

There are a lot of things to consider in that situation.

Have their grades been going up or down? Why are they considered your top recruites? Do they know about their scholastic obligations once initated? What are your chapters numbers like?

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Are numbers are low, we have 19 guys, but 12 of us are graduating in the spring. The colony constitution state you need a 2.5, but that was made by the A.O., not us. The code of Beta says you need the GPA required to graduate at your host insititution (2.0). They are freshman, so they have only had one semester, so I can't tell you if there grades went up or down. The school requires a 2.3 to inititiate into any fraternity, so they all have that. They are our top guys, because we know them the best, and like them the best, all 5 of them. They also all are comitted to Beta. However, we don't want to piss any one off, plus integrity is something we want to stay true to, and although 2.5 isnt on Beta's books, it is pretty much suggested. You wouldnt want a member to come in with bad standing. However, these guys otherwise would get a bid in a heartbeat, and we don't want them to be persuaded to go somewhere else where they can join right away...

Originally Posted by Coramoor

There are a lot of things to consider in that situation.

Have their grades been going up or down? Why are they considered your top recruites? Do they know about their scholastic obligations once initated? What are your chapters numbers like?

[BigRedBeta]

My question concerns when you actually initiate your pledges.

Chapter XIII, SECTION 3. states:

Minimum Member Scholastic Requirement: In addition to requirements set forth in Section 2, each chapter should strive to maintain a chapter average equal to or exceeding the local All Men’s Average. In order to achieve that goal, each member is required to maintain a cumulative grade point average of not less than a 2.5 on a four-point grading scale or its equivalent; provided however that any member having at least a 2.5 for the most recent grading period shall be deemed to meet this requirement. Any member who does not maintain the required average shall be required to enroll in an academic assistance program established by the chapter. The chapter will provide a written program subject to approval by the Administrative Office at the beginning of each school year.

Now if you wait until their grades come back from this spring semester and initiate them after that point, you can require that 2.5 (and I would put it into your bylaws so you don't have this question in the future), and then they'll come in as members in good standing.

I guess the only really major thing that might make this a less than an ideal situation is if your chapter uses a shorter pledge program. However, since the GF doesn't put restrictions on length of pledge program, there's really no reason you couldn't extend your pledge program - unless your campus has some rules that prevent that. Also, I suppose that if all the other chapters on your campus have shorter programs, that might hurt you in recruitment on down the line, as other chapters may use that against you.

I suppose that the fact so many of you are graduating that also might put a damper on initiating later, but I think it's probably something that could be managed.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Well, youll right, and that argument has been made, the next sentence after the bold one states

[QOUTE] Any member who does not maintain the required average shall be required to enroll in an academic assistance program established by the chapter. [/QUOTE]

It doesnt say that to be initiated you have to have it, it just means that they will immediately be put on the academic assistance plan. Also, out constitution does have the 2.5 thing, and the academic assistance program in it, however, we never stick to our constitution or bylaws, because they were basically just handed to us by the AO

So, technically, they can be initiated and we even called Steve Becker to confirm it. So, this is a ethical issue, not a rules issue.

Also, Denison requires that all pledges of a fraternity be initiated the semester that they are pledged. We don't stay here over summer, we don't live in our house, and everyone is required to live in dorms on campus. So, we couldnt do it anyways, cause everyone goes home.

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

My question concerns when you actually initiate your pledges.

Chapter XIII, SECTION 3. states:



Now if you wait until their grades come back from this spring semester and initiate them after that point, you can require that 2.5 (and I would put it into your bylaws so you don't have this question in the future), and then they'll come in as members in good standing.

I guess the only really major thing that might make this a less than an ideal situation is if your chapter uses a shorter pledge program. However, since the GF doesn't put restrictions on length of pledge program, there's really no reason you couldn't extend your pledge program - unless your campus has some rules that prevent that. Also, I suppose that if all the other chapters on your campus have shorter programs, that might hurt you in recruitment on down the line, as other chapters may use that against you.

I suppose that the fact so many of you are graduating that also might put a damper on initiating later, but I think it's probably something that could be managed.

[BigRedBeta]

Well, I don't like the initiation rule - I don't the university should be able to tell you when you have to initiate your pledges. I realize the logistical issues for actually carrying it out aren't ideal, but is it really that much of a difference if you were to initiate them a week after, or have them go through initiation at convention?

I also personally think that it's bunk that you don't follow your bylaws. That's what they're there for regardless of who gave them to you. If you aren't going to follow them as written, then change them. I've been in situations where my chapter voted to suspend the rules, and it's a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Might as well change them so you do follow them...

I guess my other question is what type of academic guidelines do you have for pledges? My chapter requires 12/week, of which 6 are supervised by the scholarship chair at the library (so really we only require 6). Everyone leaves and returns as a group. If you do something similar and initiate as late as you feel comfortable, then you can pretty much guarantee they'll end up above a 2.5, and they'll only be initiated for a short time before they get their grades back at which point they'll be in good standing. Put it close enough to finals and they'll be studying their ass off anyways...

I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't have a problem initiating them as they are, but it sounds like the problem is more what happens afterwards. I hope I'm coming up with solutions that minimizes the overlap between the "new initiate" phase and member in bad standing phase. Messing around with the initiation date is one of the few things (only?) that puts them in good standing as quickly as possible after their initiation - so that they can vote in chapter, have full privileges of membership, and things of that nature (b/c really, who wants to get initiated and then immediately be put on an academic program and not get to take part in the newly opened environment in front of them).

[sdbeta1]

What would happen if you simply don't follow Denison's rules and hold them for initiation after grades are released? They need to know that a 2.5 is what they need to get initiated. You can go on and on weighing each side of the issue. What went into them getting bad grades during their first semester? Have they turned things around? Will your chapter help them pull the grades up?

My one question is would you want to pledge and initiate these men under the same circumstances but with a 30-40-50 member chapter?

[a.e.B.O.T.]

1. Bylaws, they are being changed, in fact I am heading up the comittee to do so. We haven't followed them, because we have voted to change them so much, but no one took initiative to actually change the bylaw.

2. During the pledge process we have study tables, however they are for everyone, members and none members. We are 100% haze free which is why we dont have set study tables the pledges MUST come and only pledges

3. I FINALLY convinced not to accept these guys without a 2.5 so these guys will just have to wait till next semester, and they all understood

4. WE GOT NINE GUYS... bids were handed out today. For this campus, 9 is a good number for formal recruitment. For our colony, 9 is FANTASTIC. All of them are awesome and we didnt compromise our standards. So, we are on the right track