APO/A-Phi-Q conflict

I know that most of the time APO chapter members stayed amongst themselves and A-Phi-Q chapter members do the same but what happens if a APO member finds himself/herself at a A-Phi-Q chapter or vice versa? Is it possible to co-exist in a chapter or will it cause alot of conflict? Has anybody dealt with this situation?

[Senusret I]

Are YOU dealing with this situation?

[33girl]

Oh my, it's the...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_u9Ttw5w6s

as we've heard before.

[DrPhil]

OMG, isn't it the same organization?

[naraht]

DrPhil,

Yes, but with somewhat different cultures. Alpha Phi Omega, Gamma Sigma Sigma, Kappa Kappa Psi and Tau Beta Sigma are all non-social and founded at HWI, but their chapters at HBCUs have taken on some characteristics of the NPHCs such as stepping, refering to pledge class as a line (and normally sorting by height like the NPHCs), etc.

88Lover,

From your previous posts, I believe that you initiated at Theta Upsilon at Case Western Reserve, definitely an HWI. So if the question is about an actual situation, rather than a somewhat touchy conversation piece, I'll give the following advice which would be appropriate in any transfer.

I'd advise talking to the membership VP/pledgemaster at the new chapter about the experiences at the old. The chapter has to sign off on a transfer of membership, at some chapters it is perfunctory, at others somewhat more intensive. You won't be asked to go through pledging again, though making a point to attend if there are pledge class meetings devoted to chapter history and traditions is probably a good idea.

I personally would avoid rush events the first semester after transfer, or at least tone it down, as a brother, the rushees will expect you to have information on how the chapter does things that you probably don't.

Now some of this advice would be vary and be more specific if I knew the specific chapters. (Just as an example, I would expect Howard U. <-> Georgetown U. would be less of an adjustment than Howard U. <-> George Washington U. even though both Georgetown and George Washington are HWI)

I'll be happy to be more specific in a PM.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

Yes, but with somewhat different cultures. Alpha Phi Omega, Gamma Sigma Sigma, Kappa Alpha Psi and Tau Beta Sigma are all non-social and founded at HWI, but their chapters at HBCUs have taken on some characteristics of the NPHCs such as stepping, refering to pledge class as a line (and normally sorting by height like the NPHCs), etc.

I assume you mean Kappa Kappa Psi?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I assume you mean Kappa Kappa Psi?

Oops. Will fix the above.

[DrPhil]

I was being sarcastically rhetorical. I know all about the organizations that Black folks have transformed at HBCUs.

Alpha Phi Omega is still Alpha Phi Omega regardless of whether members culturally identify as APO or A-Phi-Que. The belief that it is not the same organization is one reason why some white folks don't want Black folks to get a substantive hold on historically (and/or predominantly) white organizations.

[naraht]

Or for that matter APhiO (which is more common in some other places).

All chapters have different experiences. My sister, after hearing me talk about the chapter at my alma mater, was gung ho to join the one at the school she was going to. That chapter went through more alcohol in a weekend than mine did in a semester (Note, this was the 1980s, and the chapter is currently inactive)

One thing that has personally minimized the differences in culture between the Alpha Phi Omega chapters at the HWI and HBCUs is finding out more about Alpha Phi Omega of the Philippines. The differences in the experiences at Johns Hopkins U. and Howard U. look like a lot less when compared to the experience at the University of Mindanao.

(Get back to me when *either* Kappa Mu at Hopkins or Zeta Phi at Howard run a service project providing Circumcisions for 6-12 year old boys. 1/2 )

[APhiQuetieACE]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Are YOU dealing with this situation?

where is the "like" button?

[arvid1978]

The belief that it is not the same organization is one reason why some white folks don't want Black folks to get a substantive hold on historically (and/or predominantly) white organizations.

Maybe I'm mis-reading your statement so maybe you could expand upon this, but that strikes me as rather ignorant, especially when you read from those of the Viking belief who do hold A-Phi-Q to be different than APO/APhiO.

http://jbskeet.tripod.com/JesseThree.html

That isn't about "white folks who don't want black folks in charge", so please take your race card elsewhere as it is not accepted here.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

Maybe I'm mis-reading your statement so maybe you could expand upon this, but that strikes me as rather ignorant, especially when you read from those of the Viking belief who do hold A-Phi-Q to be different than APO/APhiO.

http://jbskeet.tripod.com/JesseThree.html

That isn't about "white folks who don't want black folks in charge", so please take your race card elsewhere as it is not accepted here.

First of all, I wish that white people wouldn't accuse black people of "playing the race card" just because race is mentioned. It is possible to have a conversation involving race without it being a race war.

Secondly, the only person I have ever heard saying A Phi Que is a separate organization IS Jesse Bridges. He is no more the leader of the Vikings than I am the leader of the Anti-Viking Brigade.

And as a matter of fact, the differences between the fraternal experiences of black people in APO and those who are not black very much do relate to DrPhil's point. Every time there is a meeting of the national alumni relations committee, there seems to be a stark divide between the black members of the committee and everyone else. I can't help but think, after I peel away the remaining layers, that race could be an issue. In fact, upon the inspection of the Program Director's reports about alumni relations, the level of cultural incompetence as it pertains to the issue of Vikings/A Phi Que is astonishing to the point of comedy.

That doesn't make the PD a racist, but I can definitely play "the race card" to uncover the level of ignorance and/or prejudice among national-level board members, which in-turn has made me think that yes, "some white folks don't want Black folks to get a substantive hold on historically (and/or predominantly) white organizations."

[Drolefille]

People still have websites on Tripod? Wooooow.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

First of all, I wish that white people wouldn't accuse black people of "playing the race card" just because race is mentioned. It is possible to have a conversation involving race without it being a race war.

Secondly, the only person I have ever heard saying A Phi Que is a separate organization IS Jesse Bridges. He is no more the leader of the Vikings than I am the leader of the Anti-Viking Brigade.

And as a matter of fact, the differences between the fraternal experiences of black people in APO and those who are not black very much do relate to DrPhil's point. Every time there is a meeting of the national alumni relations committee, there seems to be a stark divide between the black members of the committee and everyone else. I can't help but think, after I peel away the remaining layers, that race could be an issue. In fact, upon the inspection of the Program Director's reports about alumni relations, the level of cultural incompetence as it pertains to the issue of Vikings/A Phi Que is astonishing to the point of comedy.

That doesn't make the PD a racist, but I can definitely play "the race card" to uncover the level of ignorance and/or prejudice among national-level board members, which in-turn has made me think that yes, "some white folks don't want Black folks to get a substantive hold on historically (and/or predominantly) white organizations."

There are some white folks who feel uncomfortable when you don't call race something else and hide it in a unicorn's anal cavity. As naraht outlined, the racial make-up of the APO/A-Phi-Q distinction is no coincidence.

The fact of the matter is that I sometimes hold a negative opinion of how Black folks sometimes transform these organizations. We've had threads on that. There should be a compromise between the white folks who don't want Black folks to have a substantive hold; and the Black folks who transform these organizations into something almost unrecognizable (as far as some are concerned).

/lane swerve over

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The fact of the matter is that I sometimes hold a negative opinion of how Black folks sometimes transform these organizations. We've had threads on that. There should be a compromise between the white folks who don't want Black folks to have a substantive hold; and the Black folks who transform these organizations into something almost unrecognizable (as far as some are concerned).

/lane swerve over

For that matter, there were (for way longer than there should have been IMO) all-male chapters at PWIs, espousing a culture that I as a member of a coed chapter would not have been comfy with or accepted by.

Then there are coed chapters, again at PWIs, who hold IFC offices they should not hold and/or use membership selection in a way more like an NPC or NIC group would.

So there is a racial factor, yes, but it's hardly the whole story.