APO/A-Phi-Q conflict

[arvid1978]

The belief that it is not the same organization is one reason why some white folks don't want Black folks to get a substantive hold on historically (and/or predominantly) white organizations.

Maybe I'm mis-reading your statement so maybe you could expand upon this, but that strikes me as rather ignorant, especially when you read from those of the Viking belief who do hold A-Phi-Q to be different than APO/APhiO.

http://jbskeet.tripod.com/JesseThree.html

That isn't about "white folks who don't want black folks in charge", so please take your race card elsewhere as it is not accepted here.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

Maybe I'm mis-reading your statement so maybe you could expand upon this, but that strikes me as rather ignorant, especially when you read from those of the Viking belief who do hold A-Phi-Q to be different than APO/APhiO.

http://jbskeet.tripod.com/JesseThree.html

That isn't about "white folks who don't want black folks in charge", so please take your race card elsewhere as it is not accepted here.

First of all, I wish that white people wouldn't accuse black people of "playing the race card" just because race is mentioned. It is possible to have a conversation involving race without it being a race war.

Secondly, the only person I have ever heard saying A Phi Que is a separate organization IS Jesse Bridges. He is no more the leader of the Vikings than I am the leader of the Anti-Viking Brigade.

And as a matter of fact, the differences between the fraternal experiences of black people in APO and those who are not black very much do relate to DrPhil's point. Every time there is a meeting of the national alumni relations committee, there seems to be a stark divide between the black members of the committee and everyone else. I can't help but think, after I peel away the remaining layers, that race could be an issue. In fact, upon the inspection of the Program Director's reports about alumni relations, the level of cultural incompetence as it pertains to the issue of Vikings/A Phi Que is astonishing to the point of comedy.

That doesn't make the PD a racist, but I can definitely play "the race card" to uncover the level of ignorance and/or prejudice among national-level board members, which in-turn has made me think that yes, "some white folks don't want Black folks to get a substantive hold on historically (and/or predominantly) white organizations."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

First of all, I wish that white people wouldn't accuse black people of "playing the race card" just because race is mentioned. It is possible to have a conversation involving race without it being a race war.

Secondly, the only person I have ever heard saying A Phi Que is a separate organization IS Jesse Bridges. He is no more the leader of the Vikings than I am the leader of the Anti-Viking Brigade.

And as a matter of fact, the differences between the fraternal experiences of black people in APO and those who are not black very much do relate to DrPhil's point. Every time there is a meeting of the national alumni relations committee, there seems to be a stark divide between the black members of the committee and everyone else. I can't help but think, after I peel away the remaining layers, that race could be an issue. In fact, upon the inspection of the Program Director's reports about alumni relations, the level of cultural incompetence as it pertains to the issue of Vikings/A Phi Que is astonishing to the point of comedy.

That doesn't make the PD a racist, but I can definitely play "the race card" to uncover the level of ignorance and/or prejudice among national-level board members, which in-turn has made me think that yes, "some white folks don't want Black folks to get a substantive hold on historically (and/or predominantly) white organizations."

There are some white folks who feel uncomfortable when you don't call race something else and hide it in a unicorn's anal cavity. As naraht outlined, the racial make-up of the APO/A-Phi-Q distinction is no coincidence.

The fact of the matter is that I sometimes hold a negative opinion of how Black folks sometimes transform these organizations. We've had threads on that. There should be a compromise between the white folks who don't want Black folks to have a substantive hold; and the Black folks who transform these organizations into something almost unrecognizable (as far as some are concerned).

/lane swerve over

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The fact of the matter is that I sometimes hold a negative opinion of how Black folks sometimes transform these organizations. We've had threads on that. There should be a compromise between the white folks who don't want Black folks to have a substantive hold; and the Black folks who transform these organizations into something almost unrecognizable (as far as some are concerned).

/lane swerve over

For that matter, there were (for way longer than there should have been IMO) all-male chapters at PWIs, espousing a culture that I as a member of a coed chapter would not have been comfy with or accepted by.

Then there are coed chapters, again at PWIs, who hold IFC offices they should not hold and/or use membership selection in a way more like an NPC or NIC group would.

So there is a racial factor, yes, but it's hardly the whole story.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Then there are coed chapters, again at PWIs, who hold IFC offices they should not hold and/or use membership selection in a way more like an NPC or NIC group would.

I see what you mean. However, some of that would be in the gender and APO threads where members have discussed the debate over co-ed or nonco-ed chapters. That's very rooted in gender (and not a more objective organizational transformation concern) because even the female APO brothers who don't transform chapters into NPC replicas have caught flack.

Originally Posted by 33girl

So there is a racial factor, yes, but it's hardly the whole story.

"It's hardly the whole story" is a common response when people bring up race or gender. It was never presented as the "whole story."

I was actually initially just saying that I can understand why members (of all historically and predominantly white organizations, not just APO) don't want members at HBCUs to transform the organization. I happened to state the obvious which is that HBCU members are predominantly Black and APO brothers are predominantly white.

But, people will never get to even half of the story if it makes them feel safe to keep pretending as though the APO/A-Phi-Q thing is merely conveniently nested in HBCUs and some Black members at PWIs.

[lyrica9]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

That isn't about "white folks who don't want black folks in charge", so please take your race card elsewhere as it is not accepted here.

see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmGW8nflIQ