Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[33girl]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

From 1951??

Having to quote myself is muy annoying. Especially when I already answered your question back on like page 3.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Actually, I probably should correct that - not so much a 1951 joiner thing, more an AES thing. NPC said they would stay out of the schools of education to keep things clear for the AES groups and surprise surprise, they went into them anyway.

Then again...all those AES groups should have just merged so they could be a big huge sorority, taking over NPC like the Jolly Green (Red, Purple) Giant.

[NutBrnHair]

How are new members taught about a 50+ yr. old grudge?

[chitownxo]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

How are new members taught about a 50+ yr. old grudge?

I don't think that's a fair comment. Teaching your members about your history is not a grudge.

[DSTCHAOS]

<------ thought "1951 joiner" was in reference to pledge year. Didn't think 33girl had been a member that long so I am glad that I now know a little of what that means.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I can think of NPC groups (yeah, one of them was mine) who went a similarly long time without updating their websites. Who had few, if any, traveling consultants.

No one came on here and cracked on them or said "wow, isn't that funny."

It wasn't someone from KBG who brought up the question of whether this chapter was disloyal or whether they had conducted things as they should, it was someone who had no dog in the fight (so to speak). KD members defended their new sisters, and a KBG member responded with their side of the story.

And like I said, if I seem leaning a little more to one side than the other, it's because my sorority has had issues with promises made by NPC and not followed through.

They may not have started the topic, but the KBG member sure added flames to the fire by trying to sully the name of their former members. I certainly don't find the need to kick a weaker person when their down, but give me a break. BootyKBG claims that they were doing so much to help their Nu chapter, but it's fairly evident that they didn't do as much as they claim. The "What's New?" page just points out that a lot of things were left undone...maybe supporting their chapter when they needed it was one of those things. And by the way, this situation is nothing like the AES situation so get over it! Is Alpha Sigma Alpha worse off or permanently scared from what happened? Are you stronger today than you were before?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

How are new members taught about a 50+ yr. old grudge?

Pretty much exactly what I said in my post, without the "surprise surprise." I mean, it is what it is. And as chitownxo said, it's not a "grudge", it's part of history. It's no different than teaching DZ new members about the various groups they absorbed, or teaching new members of various groups that they had a "white clause" that no longer exists.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And by the way, this situation is nothing like the AES situation so get over it! Is Alpha Sigma Alpha worse off or permanently scared from what happened? Are you stronger today than you were before?

Umm, actually I think it probably is a lot like the AES situation, in terms of NPC saying they would do something and didn't.

And yeah - we probably did lose some chapters that we wouldn't have lost if that hadn't happened. I can't speak for the other AES groups, but I'm guessing they did as well.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=23968

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Umm, actually I think it probably is a lot like the AES situation, in terms of NPC saying they would do something and didn't.

And yeah - we probably did lose some chapters that we wouldn't have lost if that hadn't happened. I can't speak for the other AES groups, but I'm guessing they did as well.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=23968

Did you have chapters that decided to disaffiliate from ASA and join another NPC? Unless KBG has some proof that NPC promised that they would help them expand, I don't see what NPC did wrong. If I remember correctly, NPC has no mechanism to enforce anything other than the agreed upon rules of its member organizations. If no one agreed not to accept a group that had disaffiliated from KBG, then they can't cry foul. KBG is not an NPC member and thus is not included under those guidelines.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Did you have chapters that decided to disaffiliate from ASA and join another NPC?

Women who were members of an AES group and an NPC had to surrender their membership in the AES group. Nowadays, it would be like if many members of an AOII chapter were also members of a Tau Beta Sigma chapter and TBS joined Panhel - it would kill the TBS chapter. Like I said, it is not about the EXACT situation that happened, it has to do with something being promised and that promise not being followed through.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Unless KBG has some proof that NPC promised that they would help them expand, I don't see what NPC did wrong. If I remember correctly, NPC has no mechanism to enforce anything other than the agreed upon rules of its member organizations. If no one agreed not to accept a group that had disaffiliated from KBG, then they can't cry foul. KBG is not an NPC member and thus is not included under those guidelines.

Originally Posted by BootyKBG

Oh, back to the original point I was trying to make, apparently KBG had agreements with NPC in the past in that they would assist us in our growth and moving toward becoming a NPC sorority (probably somewhere between 5 to 8 years ago), thus we were on friendly terms with NPC.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Women who were members of an AES group and an NPC had to surrender their membership in the AES group. Nowadays, it would be like if many members of an AOII chapter were also members of a Tau Beta Sigma chapter and TBS joined Panhel - it would kill the TBS chapter. Like I said, it is not about the EXACT situation that happened, it has to do with something being promised and that promise not being followed through.

Yes...I read BootyKBG's post...yet I am very skeptical. As for AES, those groups did not have to join the NPC, but in order to join, AES groups had to live up to the preexisting agreements which include not allowing women to be members of more than one organization. And your example that TBS would be killed if it joined NPC is not accurate...this would only happen if all members of the group were also members of NPC groups as well which I'm sure is not the case. I'm sure that AES chapters did suffer in some ways, but NPC is not to blame. NPC isn't really even an entity. Competition can be very difficult, but its a reality for us all. Unfortunately, since ASA, SSS and AST joined late, they had to abide by what the other NPCs had already agreed upon. Doesn't sound so evil or calculating to me!

[AlwaysSAI]

This whole thread has got me thinking---

But, I wonder if an NPC org would have the same sort of actions towards an SAI chapter. The women of F&M were up front about disaffiliating and becoming KD-I'm referring more to the LUC situation.

I guess, I'm just wondering if KBGs size/strength had anything to do with it. SAI has 212 active college chapters and 120 active alumnae chapters. If an SAI chapter contacted NPC for expansion before disaffiliation was complete, I wonder how NPC/orgs that wanted to expand would go about dealing with it.

Disclaimer-*I'm not referring to any specific NPC org--it's just a hypothetical*

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

This whole thread has got me thinking---

But, I wonder if an NPC org would have the same sort of actions towards an SAI chapter. The women of F&M were up front about disaffiliating and becoming KD-I'm referring more to the LUC situation.

I guess, I'm just wondering if KBGs size/strength had anything to do with it. SAI has 212 active college chapters and 120 active alumnae chapters. If an SAI chapter contacted NPC for expansion before disaffiliation was complete, I wonder how NPC/orgs that wanted to expand would go about dealing with it.

Disclaimer-*I'm not referring to any specific NPC org--it's just a hypothetical*

Hypothetically, there would probably not be a problem with an NPC absorbing an SAI chapter. I doubt anyone would since SAI is a completely different type organization, and I can't see a whole chapter of a service organization up and changing to a social organization no matter how much philanthropic work social sororities do. Those members could just join another NPC on campus and stay a part of SAI as well. All NPC does is make sure that the agreed upon rules are followed. After that, it's up to the member organization whether or not they want to persue colonization of that chapter.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Hypothetically, there would probably not be a problem with an NPC absorbing an SAI chapter. I doubt anyone would since SAI is a completely different type organization, and I can't see a whole chapter of a service organization up and changing to a social organization no matter how much philanthropic work social sororities do. Those members could just join another NPC on campus and stay a part of SAI as well. All NPC does is make sure that the agreed upon rules are followed. After that, it's up to the member organization whether or not they want to persue colonization of that chapter.

But if the majority of members in a group (say SAI) joins an NPC (while keeping their SAI membership) and is devoting more time to it, time they used to devote SAI, well, SAI is probably going to get screwed. I think that's why sometimes there are service or professional GLOs that look down on their members joining social GLOs - they've been burned in that way in the past and they don't want it to happen again.

Plus on some campuses, SAI is pretty much exactly like a social except they don't participate in Panhel rush. What would most likely happen is the women in a chapter like this would stay in SAI, it would just change from being more social to being more of a professional/resume thing.

And as you said in your earlier post, you're absolutely right - we and the other groups joined later and had to go by the rules already in place. That doesn't mean that I don't sometimes wonder if it was the right decision.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But if the majority of members in a group (say SAI) joins an NPC (while keeping their SAI membership) and is devoting more time to it, time they used to devote SAI, well, SAI is probably going to get screwed. I think that's why sometimes there are service or professional GLOs that look down on their members joining social GLOs - they've been burned in that way in the past and they don't want it to happen again.

Plus on some campuses, SAI is pretty much exactly like a social except they don't participate in Panhel rush. What would most likely happen is the women in a chapter like this would stay in SAI, it would just change from being more social to being more of a professional/resume thing.

And as you said in your earlier post, you're absolutely right - we and the other groups joined later and had to go by the rules already in place. That doesn't mean that I don't sometimes wonder if it was the right decision.

I completely see your point. I'm sure the people in charge at the time felt that they couldn't compete without having some protections from chapters already in the NPC. Unfortunately, there were many overlapping memberships. Do you know if any members chose to keep their AES chapter membership over their NPC? There are a lot of advantages to NPC membership, but their are also HUGE restrictions. Definitely not a perfect system, but letting everyone join as a full member of NPC, no matter how few chapters you have, would not be feasible. If member organizations feel strongly about it, however, they could vote not to colonize non-NPC sororities existing chapters. I bet they wont, though!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I completely see your point. I'm sure the people in charge at the time felt that they couldn't compete without having some protections from chapters already in the NPC. Unfortunately, there were many overlapping memberships. Do you know if any members chose to keep their AES chapter membership over their NPC?

I believe that you could choose to, but if you didn't do anything your "default" membership was with the original NPC.