Alabama Sorority Costs...Can anyone help?

[IrishLake]

In agreement. Tichou, I think you're being harsh. Not everyone has the same opportunities. Not everyone has the same talents. Not everyone has the same smarts. Things like competative dance or pagaents are an expensive investment themselves. I've been unemployed. So has my husband. We know what it's like to make sacrifices. I had to make sacrifices so our kids could play soccer or take swim lessons. Soccer and swim are much more affordable for us versus gymnastics, dance or riding lessons. So we opt for the cheaper. We still are re-prioritizing a few hundred. Thousands are a much bigger deal. If I offered to ay for my daughters sorority dues, and I found out that the average was not indeed representative of the groups she had remaining as recruitment wore on, I would indeed encourage her to consider the cost. And if she still ended up with the most expensive group, I would offer to pay the amount that I originally had in mind. My daughter would be respnsible for the rest.

I also had a major where my advisors and professors said I wouldn't have time to have a job. We often took weekend field trips that ate into prime work hours. I still had 3. Two of them were only 3 hours a week each and I was able to study while I was working (computer lab monitor and dorm desk attendent). I would still encourage the OPs daughter to find something simple so she is able to contribute. (Oh, and my jobs are what paid for my dues. My parents offered nothing.)

[FSUZeta]

jll, while my daughter was working on her masters at Bama she had a part time job thru the university. She telephoned people from a list of names and asked them questions for a poll that I think a Social Science professor was conducting. The telephone bank manager was very flexible about working around each pollster's time constraints. It was an on campus job. That poll might still be being conducted. PM me if you might be interested in more info.

It had been recommended to my daughter that she not get a job, but it was necessary. I realize that there is a big difference in maturation and time management skills of a freshman and a first year graduate student, but it worked for my girl.

[ellebud]

As a parent of three kids, who were born 4 years apart, I want to weigh in. Life changes and sometimes we just can't help that. We brought our oldest home from the hospital to a sweet starter house. Our second to a very nice house in suburbia with a housekeeper. And our third to the house we live in now which is flights above the prior homes. (Not a step or two). Life changes. And kids don't get the "same" stuff. My son freely says that while the three siblings were raised by the same people he was an "only" which neither of his sisters were and he had no idea that we once lived in a small sweet house with only 2 bathrooms. Their early childhood was different...not better not worse...different.

It saddens me that people assume that a family can just cut down on lattes and then can afford something else. That being said: OP schools often recommend that kids not work their first year. Save for medical school...totally untrue. People waste time..a lot. To view that as a done deal, be it for money for a sorority of a nicer dorm room or a trip to Cabo is nonsense. Many houses have scholarships and award money. (At least they do here).

Life can be unfair. But parents (good parents, and I believe the OP is a good parent) find a way of thinking out of the box. Your child is not a "child". She can help sort this out and NOT by dropping houses. (I will say that after my daughter's recruitment I was kind of happy that my daughter didn't like the uber expensive house.)

Let her rush her heart. Let her find the way to help out.

[happilyanchored]

I'm perfectly fine with not having a house on my campus but some of those amenities are quite tempting...a frozen yogurt machine IN HOUSE!? Also my stomach is grumbling looking at some of those meal plans and snacks they offer.

As for dues, they were given to us during recruitment broken down item-by-item during each sorority's open house presentation. At any point after that, if we forgot, I'm pretty sure our gamma chis had that information readily available. I don't understand why anyone would want to hide fees from PNMs and their families, especially during this economy.

That being said, I'm pretty sure most groups offer scholarships for sisters should financial need arise. Looking at the FSU pdf, some of the chapters on campus even list scholarship offerings and monetary amounts that sisters can apply for right there (i.e. Theta, ZTA).

[HQWest]

I can totally understand the frustration from the moms on here. I know how this can come about where the Panhellenic didn't put the dues into the handbook. They don't want someone to make the costs their deciding factor or to judge one sorority as better than another based on the dues.

Aside from that, one of the problems these very large chapters have is that they are dealing with really big budgets and a membership that is constantly in flux. They could be told as late as pref night that well quota will be 60 + or - 20. They don't want to write a budget and then change what they said to higher - and then NMs feel misled, and they don't want to put to change it to lower later and has someone make their choice based on what they saw in the handbook.

Its hard enough in a strong chapter where people want to take advantage of the house, but its even harder when you have to spread costs of the house to unhoused members, to encourage people to stay in the house. On our campus dues are actually pretty close to the same, but some chapters are constantly having to use a crystal ball to predict how many women will decide not to initiate or how many will resign before senior year. (All of a sudden I can see how bed quota sounds like a good idea....) We try to provide an estimate before recruitment.

The finance director should sit down at the first new member meeting and lay out 1) what the dues are 2) what they cover 3) estimated costs of everything they don't cover 4) how much is due before initiation 5) how much is due by the end of the semester 6) what the policy on the payment plan or a promise note is.
If the exact amount of dues is not available - because of a crazy recruitment or not blessed by the international office - a list from last years amounts should be available.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by HQWest

I can totally understand the frustration from the moms on here. I know how this can come about where the Panhellenic didn't put the dues into the handbook. They don't want someone to make the costs their deciding factor or to judge one sorority as better than another based on the dues.

Aside from that, one of the problems these very large chapters have is that they are dealing with really big budgets and a membership that is constantly in flux. They could be told as late as pref night that well quota will be 60 + or - 20. They don't want to write a budget and then change what they said to higher - and then NMs feel misled, and they don't want to put to change it to lower later and has someone make their choice based on what they saw in the handbook.

Its hard enough in a strong chapter where people want to take advantage of the house, but its even harder when you have to spread costs of the house to unhoused members, to encourage people to stay in the house. On our campus dues are actually pretty close to the same, but some chapters are constantly having to use a crystal ball to predict how many women will decide not to initiate or how many will resign before senior year. (All of a sudden I can see how bed quota sounds like a good idea....) We try to provide an estimate before recruitment.

The finance director should sit down at the first new member meeting and lay out 1) what the dues are 2) what they cover 3) estimated costs of everything they don't cover 4) how much is due before initiation 5) how much is due by the end of the semester 6) what the policy on the payment plan or a promise note is.
If the exact amount of dues is not available - because of a crazy recruitment or not blessed by the international office - a list from last years amounts should be available.

HQWest, you nailed it. This is the problem with quoting costs! I'd bold everything you wrote, but that would defeat the purpose, so I'm just quoting your entire post and saying "ditto." It is SO HARD to figure out financials, and at best it is an estimate because there are so many variables from year to year.

[DubaiSis]

jll, I look forward to hearing how it all washes out for you and your daughter and I'm hoping for the best. And maybe this firestorm will serve some good, ie. getting some of these schools to be more up front about their costs and showing how it can be done effectively by example. I'm hoping this was all moot and her choices at preference were among the more mid-market options and you weren't forced to do any of the negatives that were mentioned. It did occur to me if what you received were averages and what you learned was WAY higher, then that must mean (by the law of averages) that some of them were substantially lower and you really had nothing to worry about. Here's hoping this was all much ado about nothing.

[Titchou]

Wow! And thank you 33Girl is all I have to say.

[apmgm]

As a long-time lurker, I'm somewhat confused by the culture of this site and the prevalence of snarky responses posted by some of "the regulars."

I wonder if those same people are so frank when dealing face-to-face with friends/family members/co-workers/members of their own or other GLOs/etc?

Perhaps it's harder to bite one's tongue on greekchat's message boards than in real life?

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by apmgm

As a long-time lurker, I'm somewhat confused by the culture of this site and the prevalence of snarky responses posted by some of "the regulars."

I wonder if those same people are so frank when dealing face-to-face with friends/family members/co-workers/members of their own or other GLOs/etc?

Perhaps it's harder to bite one's tongue on greekchat's message boards than in real life?

I'm a long-time lurker too -- usually confined to this time of year. I have found useful information in the stickied posts and appreciate the links to published bid lists, etc.

But I've actually never seen a forum culture where even a moderator joins in the heckling and uses vulgar language. I thought that was what a moderator was responsible for preventing. #classy

Perhaps they don't realize that this kind of behavior just perpetuates stereotypes about greek organizations.

Being frank is not the same as ridiculing a mother and launching personal attacks directed toward her parenting. I guess doing so from behind anonymous screen names enhances the boldness of some.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Please keep in mind that I was speaking for my own chapter (as I noted). I would be embarrassed if one of our chapter advisors, for instance, represented us publicly in such a mean-spirited manner, even if via a seemingly anonymous screenname. This is just my opinion, of course.

As for who I am talking about – obviously I cannot read every previous post on this forum, but did check enough to know that she is not a member of my GLO at Bama. It appears that she was affiliated with a sorority that had dwindled so that it eventually folded (while I was in school there, in fact). I do remember the little house on the stadium-side corner – those girls surely could have used help from committed alums.

If she is active in the re-colonization of her chapter, or in other positions of importance within her GLO, then that’s lovely. Still, I can completely understand jll’s sentiment, considering the hurtful manner in which she was treated.

I think I may have a little insight on the behavior now, at least -- but thanks for the warning.

Honestly, you're over blowing the whole situation. Talk about drama queen. I don't agree with Titchou's statements on parenting, but a whole bunch of posters came to the OP's defense about that. Titchou has a right to her opinion...who knows, she may be a middle child who got treated differently by her parents and is sensitive to it. As adults, we can IGNORE opinions we don't like and move on. As for you pretending to be above the fray, your post about her group closing when you were at Bama was as catty a comment as any I've seen in my 5 years on GC, and by the way really perpetuates those evil Greek stereotypes. So keep on #classy-ing all you want...

In the end, I feel for the OP and the position she's in, BUT Titchou and 33Girl are right, there isn't much she can do but ride it out and pay the dues she's assessed or drop out. There just isn't that much control, unfortunately, in the system.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by apmgm

As a long-time lurker, I'm somewhat confused by the culture of this site and the prevalence of snarky responses posted by some of "the regulars."

I wonder if those same people are so frank when dealing face-to-face with friends/family members/co-workers/members of their own or other GLOs/etc?

Perhaps it's harder to bite one's tongue on greekchat's message boards than in real life?

A lot of it has to do with the fact that most of the "regulars" have been on here for at least a few recruitments, and the same questions come up over and over and over. (This is one, as well as the timeless "black girl in an NPC" discussion.) Some of us get kind of annoyed by it and some people express their annoyance in different ways.

I'm having a hard time understanding why an UNDERGRADUATE major would try to prevent students from working. Architecture is as ridiculous as any major (there's a reason why they call it "architorture") and none of the schools that I've been allied with have ever tried to prevent students from working because some kids need to do so. Usually, if work is discouraged, they'll make up for it with a scholarship or a stipend.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by apmgm

As a long-time lurker, I'm somewhat confused by the culture of this site and the prevalence of snarky responses posted by some of "the regulars."

I wonder if those same people are so frank when dealing face-to-face with friends/family members/co-workers/members of their own or other GLOs/etc?

Perhaps it's harder to bite one's tongue on greekchat's message boards than in real life?

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

I'm a long-time lurker too -- usually confined to this time of year. I have found useful information in the stickied posts and appreciate the links to published bid lists, etc.

But I've actually never seen a forum culture where even a moderator joins in the heckling and uses vulgar language. I thought that was what a moderator was responsible for preventing. #classy

Perhaps they don't realize that this kind of behavior just perpetuates stereotypes about greek organizations.

Being frank is not the same as ridiculing a mother and launching personal attacks directed toward her parenting. I guess doing so from behind anonymous screen names enhances the boldness of some.

Long time lurkers who don't like the culture on GC are free to not visit us here. Quite honestly, if you were long time lurkers, you'd already know what posters have told you.

[apmgm]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Long time lurkers who don't like the culture on GC are free to not visit us here. Quite honestly, if you were long time lurkers, you'd already know what posters have told you.

For clarification, I'm not the parent of a current snowflake; my own two lovely snowflakes long ago navigated sec recruitment as did I back in the day.

I do enjoy keeping up with where the girls from my hometown pledge, and greekchat.com is an interesting diversion this time of year. Nevertheless, each year, I'm discover at least one thread that's "gone south" with regulars attacking a parent who has posted seeking advice. Now granted, the poster is often unrealistic in his or her expectations, but people often are. In real life, it seems that most of us handle such situations (when we know someone is misguided and has asked for advice) with a great deal more patience and tact than I've seen here.

The NPC and IFC organizations on many SEC campuses still have a reputation of snobbiness and within the systems, some chapters are known as the worst. I believe most of us who have been a part of this community wish this was not our reputation. Unfortunately when we present ourselves (as many on this board do) as authorities on the system and act snarkily to anyone (even each other,) we perpetuate this unfortunate reputation.

Would it be too much to ask that we perhaps remember our panhellenic - and human - spirit?


*As a sidenote, the term "snwoflake" really makes me bristle. Why should a parent NOT think his or her child is special and wonderful?? If you're about to take offense, please go back and re-read the part about unrealistic parents.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm having a hard time understanding why an UNDERGRADUATE major would try to prevent students from working. Architecture is as ridiculous as any major (there's a reason why they call it "architorture") and none of the schools that I've been allied with have ever tried to prevent students from working because some kids need to do so. Usually, if work is discouraged, they'll make up for it with a scholarship or a stipend.

Without knowing the OP's daughter's major, I'm guessing that holding a job is discouraged because the undergraduate degree is just the first step and grades are paramount to move forward and be accepted to a graduate program.

That being said, I find these work restrictions ridiculous because there is no such restriction for campus activities. I think my sorority involvement was way more intensive than any job I held off campus while I was a full time undergrad.

I think it is great to come from a family where parents pay for college and living expenses and sorority expenses. I didn't have that. I have student loans (and thanks to grad school I will probably have them until I die LOL) and I worked my way through undergrad to pay for living expenses, sorority dues, etc. If I wanted something, I had to pay for it. So I feel like if you want to be in a sorority and your major discourages holding a job, there are ways. You can have a summer job. You can babysit on weekends. You can get a paid internship. You can tutor. You can sell stuff on Ebay or etsy. You can work at any number of campus jobs where all you do is surf the internet and occasionally answer a phone or look up from gchatting to give someone directions.

OP is in a frustrating position, but by her accounts, she has a smart kid. And if her kid wants to make this work, I am sure she will be resourceful and find a way. I wish them both lots of luck and hope the daughter has a great experience at UA.