Obama orders end to the practice of denying same-sex partners hospital visits

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I've known gay people who oppose gay marriage because they see it as buying into what society considers normative rather than standing in contrast (opposition?) to societal norms.

Just another example of the danger of assuming that everybody in any given "group" thinks alike.

Yeah, like having people assume that ALL Black people voted for Obama. I know what you mean. and that is one reason why I was so surprised to see the division in the group.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I recognize that you aren't trying to start anything, but if I actually explain WHY, that would just start OTHERS on that path of sniping and backbiting. I don't want to do all of that. People start slinging allegations of homophobia even that's not even CLOSE to being the case. It is just too sticky.

Fair enough. Really wasn't trying to put you in an uncomfortable situation at all.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I used the 2000 election because it was a SPECIFIC example of what I was talking about. I don't recall hearing about a similar poll during any other election.

No offense, but I don't need to look at any polls to realize that some people eat up everything that politicians say, and vote based on meaningless things.

And I don't exactly understand your point in referencing the Obama beer discussion at the White House. That had nothing to do with elections. That was an effort at mediation.

The comment about the beer was a joke.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I think KSUviolet asked for my PERSONAL opinion. Which means your discussion about church and state is not relevant.

But let's not forget that the country WAS founded on Christian principles. Most of the laws we follow have a foundation in the Ten Commandments.

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

Any "Christian Principles" that are in are constitution are simply a result of the Christian upbringing of our founders. They did not set out to create a Christian state.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

I'm really asking this to try to understand, not to try to start anything. I've heard the religious argument before but I don't understand why some people think their religious views should be imposed on others. If gay marriage were legalized, your church would not be required to perform gay marriage ceremonies. So I don't really understand what makes that a legitimate argument. Can you help me make sense of that? If it's a personal disagreement based on religious reasons, why wouldn't you just personally not engage in such an activity and not belong to a church that supports it? Why does that have to extend to everyone else?

I heart you for this, my Panhellenic sister, even though we have different views on things.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I think KSUviolet asked for my PERSONAL opinion. Which means your discussion about church and state is not relevant.

But let's not forget that the country WAS founded on Christian principles. Most of the laws we follow have a foundation in the Ten Commandments.

The 10 Commandments (and a lot of other principles you speak of) aren't just a Christian thing, some of The Chosen People are likely to disagree with you, as will some Muslims. Also, context is highly important here. People of the 1770s may have very different religious beliefs than 2010s, and be of the same faiths. Trying to live within the context now, is often difficult. Neither of us would have been able to vote, and perhaps I would have learned to read, play the piano and speak French, but the white, land owning, educated, Christian men of 1770 are not the be all end all, and provided a great foundation.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

Unitarians and Episcopalians are some places you may want to check out. Some, but not all individual ELCA Lutheran churches as well.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I heart you for this, my Panhellenic sister, even though we have different views on things...

Unitarian-Universalists and Episcopalians are some places you may want to check out. Some, but not all individual ELCA Lutheran churches as well.

Fixed it for you (The entire denomination is for this, organizationally speaking.)

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Unitarians and Episcopalians are some places you may want to check out. Some, but not all individual ELCA Lutheran churches as well.

Unitarians have fairly extreme views because they don't believe in the Trinity. The Episcopal church it really depends on the independent church, though from what i understand most churches are more on the liberal side.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Unitarians have fairly extreme views because they don't believe in the Trinity. The Episcopal church it really depends on the independent church, though from what i understand most churches are more on the liberal side.

Do Unitarians really NOT believe in anything? I thought you could believe in anything or not believe in anything to be a member.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

Not only don't the ten commandments say anything about marrying someone of the same sex, the various places that homosexuality are mentioned aren't in the same chapter of the bible as the 10 commandments (in either of the places where the 10 commandments are mentioned.) The closest that you get is that both one set of statements of the 10 commandments is in Leviticus and so is the prohibition against homosexual sex. (Note that Lesbian sex isn't mentioned at all).

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Do Unitarians really NOT believe in anything? I thought you could believe in anything or not believe in anything to be a member.

Honestly I don't know, but that is what I was aware of. Unitarian Christianity at least is belief in Jesus, but not the Trinity. Or that is what I was told.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Fixed it for you (The entire denomination is for this, organizationally speaking.)

So you would prefer me to use the full name? The people who I know who practice say Unitarian, and it is clear who we mean.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Unitarians have fairly extreme views because they don't believe in the Trinity.

Unitarians aren't the only ones. In fact, many well-known preachers...like T.D. Jakes, aren't Unitarians yet they don't believe in the Trinity either.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Honestly I don't know, but that is what I was aware of. Unitarian Christianity at least is belief in Jesus, but not the Trinity. Or that is what I was told.

Nope. http://www.uua.org/visitors/index.shtml

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Nope. http://www.uua.org/visitors/index.shtml

Notice I said Unitarian Christianity, not Unitarian Universalism.