Obama orders end to the practice of denying same-sex partners hospital visits

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

I'm really asking this to try to understand, not to try to start anything. I've heard the religious argument before but I don't understand why some people think their religious views should be imposed on others. If gay marriage were legalized, your church would not be required to perform gay marriage ceremonies. So I don't really understand what makes that a legitimate argument. Can you help me make sense of that? If it's a personal disagreement based on religious reasons, why wouldn't you just personally not engage in such an activity and not belong to a church that supports it? Why does that have to extend to everyone else?

I heart you for this, my Panhellenic sister, even though we have different views on things.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I think KSUviolet asked for my PERSONAL opinion. Which means your discussion about church and state is not relevant.

But let's not forget that the country WAS founded on Christian principles. Most of the laws we follow have a foundation in the Ten Commandments.

The 10 Commandments (and a lot of other principles you speak of) aren't just a Christian thing, some of The Chosen People are likely to disagree with you, as will some Muslims. Also, context is highly important here. People of the 1770s may have very different religious beliefs than 2010s, and be of the same faiths. Trying to live within the context now, is often difficult. Neither of us would have been able to vote, and perhaps I would have learned to read, play the piano and speak French, but the white, land owning, educated, Christian men of 1770 are not the be all end all, and provided a great foundation.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

Unitarians and Episcopalians are some places you may want to check out. Some, but not all individual ELCA Lutheran churches as well.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I heart you for this, my Panhellenic sister, even though we have different views on things...

Unitarian-Universalists and Episcopalians are some places you may want to check out. Some, but not all individual ELCA Lutheran churches as well.

Fixed it for you (The entire denomination is for this, organizationally speaking.)

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Fixed it for you (The entire denomination is for this, organizationally speaking.)

So you would prefer me to use the full name? The people who I know who practice say Unitarian, and it is clear who we mean.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Unitarians and Episcopalians are some places you may want to check out. Some, but not all individual ELCA Lutheran churches as well.

Unitarians have fairly extreme views because they don't believe in the Trinity. The Episcopal church it really depends on the independent church, though from what i understand most churches are more on the liberal side.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Unitarians have fairly extreme views because they don't believe in the Trinity. The Episcopal church it really depends on the independent church, though from what i understand most churches are more on the liberal side.

Do Unitarians really NOT believe in anything? I thought you could believe in anything or not believe in anything to be a member.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Do Unitarians really NOT believe in anything? I thought you could believe in anything or not believe in anything to be a member.

Honestly I don't know, but that is what I was aware of. Unitarian Christianity at least is belief in Jesus, but not the Trinity. Or that is what I was told.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Honestly I don't know, but that is what I was aware of. Unitarian Christianity at least is belief in Jesus, but not the Trinity. Or that is what I was told.

Nope. http://www.uua.org/visitors/index.shtml

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Nope. http://www.uua.org/visitors/index.shtml

Notice I said Unitarian Christianity, not Unitarian Universalism.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Notice I said Unitarian Christianity, not Unitarian Universalism.

From RUOXAlum
Quote:
Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel
I heart you for this, my Panhellenic sister, even though we have different views on things...

Unitarian-Universalists and Episcopalians are some places you may want to check out. Some, but not all individual ELCA Lutheran churches as well.

Fixed it for you (The entire denomination is for this, organizationally speaking.)

And this is why I was thinking universalist Sorry, Vito, we were on different tracks!

[epchick]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Unitarians have fairly extreme views because they don't believe in the Trinity.

Unitarians aren't the only ones. In fact, many well-known preachers...like T.D. Jakes, aren't Unitarians yet they don't believe in the Trinity either.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by epchick

Unitarians aren't the only ones. In fact, many well-known preachers...like T.D. Jakes, aren't Unitarians yet they don't believe in the Trinity either.

Wow. I never knew that. I don't listen to Jakes though, but I'm surprised to hear that. Are you sure?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Wow. I never knew that. I don't listen to Jakes though, but I'm surprised to hear that. Are you sure?

Yeah, he's Oneness Pentecostal. His website (and that of his church) used to state his belief on the whole Trinity thing, but he has since changed/re-worded it.

He basically believes that the Trinity is polytheistic--the whole idea of 3 in 1. His belief is that it was first God. Then he transformed into Jesus (meaning there was no longer "God") and then when Jesus ascended into heaven, he transformed into the Holy Spirit. So now, there is no 'God,' there is no 'Jesus,' it is now the Holy Spirit. He will say "Jesus" but he means the Holy Spirit, not Jesus himself.

I don't agree with his belief, but I very much enjoy hearing Bishop Jakes preach.