Katrina, and the UN

[shinerbock]

Well, I think conservatives care about the UN because we pay about 25 percent of its dues, it meets on our soil, and operates with impunity. Even after this, it still acts against the interests of the United States. Everyone likes to hear about what they hate. It gets us riled up, and for us political types, we live to get riled up.

Regarding Homeland Security, it is an imperative part of our country's defense. Secret police? You must be kidding. People are pissed about wire taps. People are pissed about torture accusations. I'd be furious if I ever found out we werent torturing people and tapping their phones. The government is charged with defending this country, and I think they should do it by whatever means needed. People can proclaim about the lack of personal freedoms, but I don't see the government stripping you of much. Chances are, tapping phones are the tip of the iceberg. I'm not worried, because I don't do anything wrong. I don't really think HS or the CIA or the DIA or NSA is concerned about what I say to my mom or girlfriend, unless it ends with "death to the infidels. All praise be to Allah."

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, I think conservatives care about the UN because we pay about 25 percent of its dues, it meets on our soil, and operates with impunity. Even after this, it still acts against the interests of the United States. Everyone likes to hear about what they hate. It gets us riled up, and for us political types, we live to get riled up.

Getting riled up is overrated. It causes one's blood pressure to increase to a point that is unhealthy. What's the point is getting angry about something that seems like it won't change?

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Regarding Homeland Security, it is an imperative part of our country's defense. Secret police? You must be kidding. People are pissed about wire taps. People are pissed about torture accusations. I'd be furious if I ever found out we werent torturing people and tapping their phones. The government is charged with defending this country, and I think they should do it by whatever means needed. People can proclaim about the lack of personal freedoms, but I don't see the government stripping you of much. Chances are, tapping phones are the tip of the iceberg. I'm not worried, because I don't do anything wrong. I don't really think HS or the CIA or the DIA or NSA is concerned about what I say to my mom or girlfriend, unless it ends with "death to the infidels. All praise be to Allah."

As long as I pay my bills on time, I don't think any agency is interested in me either. My life is rather boring right now... The minute I fail to pay one bill on time and go into collection, is when there is a full investigation into my credit score thru Equifax/Transunion/Experian as to why I am a financial risk to the entire global security...

Have you ever had your identity stolen to the point that there was a crime committed in your name?

Do you have any idea how humiliating and dehumanizing it is?

Eff being innocent till proven guilty, that chit definitely don't work in reality...

Now, imagine what it's like when you are a part of diparaged group and you are a kid with no advocacy or "political connections"...

And you wonder why folks start speaking in code or obscure foreign languages...

What you are wondering is the epistemology that historically happened a long time ago...

There is a reason why you think the way you do and in some ways, the government, which includes your society, forced you to think in a certain way...

Folks tell us we have free will and show us how we do have it... But it was not our will to be born to poor, uneducated mothers, which usually alludes to malnutrition, undeveloped neurological conditions that include fundamental learning motifs. Sure, there are exceptions to EVERY rule. But as long as there is gross neglect of children in a country that purports "freedom and democracy" to all it's citizens, then how can the least among us have a chance in this reality?

Engaging in a life a crime is the uneducated easy way out. But, it puts food on the table for some folks. It's wrong, but a necessay evil...

Some would say that an unprovoked invasion of a rogue country is a necessay evil, too... Some would say that...

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, I think conservatives care about the UN because we pay about 25 percent of its dues, it meets on our soil, and operates with impunity.

When we pay them. We've not been real good at that in many cases.

Also, just as a military installation is not legally a part of the state that hosts it, the UN is not technically in the United States.

It is it's own little country.

[shinerbock]

Well, I wouldnt say unprovoked. Not following UN regulations for a decade gave the ample plenty of time to get their stuff together.

Regarding your comments on freedom and democracy, they seem unrelated to children starving. It is the citizens responsibility to feed the hungry and care for the sick, not the governments. As for crime, it may be an necc evil, but we still have a duty to punish it. I don't need crime to get by. Crime, more often than not, its an action of lazyness rather than neccesity. Most people don't steal to eat. While I feel for those who do steal to eat, I have no problem with them going to jail. They broke the law, and this isn't a monarchy where we are starving everyone but the elite. I feel our laws are just. There is plenty to be had, you just have to get it. I know it is difficult for many to do, but so what? The ease with which one is to procure such things is not established, it varies. Nobody should be helped nor hindered based on their starting position. The best they can do is attempt to better themselves, in order to advance the starting position of those they leave behind.

I know this may sound heartless, and perhaps it is to a degree. I think our role as the citzenry is to take care of our fellow citizens. Depending on the government simply won't work, and it shouldnt have to. Because of the government's current role, I think many institutions have stopped playing the role they should play in our society. While our religious groups do great things for the community, they generally arent the shelter for the poor and the sick and the hungry like they once were. Volunteer groups have options the government does not. It is much easier to kick people out of your home than it is for the government to stop supporting someone without means. Thus, people are often able to take advantage of the government's generosity, and much of the general public feels slighted by this. If the government held a lesser role in the charitable support community, I think people would be more willing to help. The government is impersonal, and red-tape often prevents the establishment of who really is in need and who is not. As citizens, we can tell who provides for their family and who spends it on less essential things. The upper class and the conservatives in this country are not against the poor. They are usually rebelling against the accusations of the left and the poor, which often proclaim that the rich hold no regard for them. However, from the perspective of the wealthy, they are not only paying a substantial tax burden, but also are expected to contribute charitably. So in essence, they are paying for them with their taxes, often paying through charity, and yet are still scorned by many in society. It is similar to America's role with the UN, in that we would be much more willing to contribute on all fronts if the world would acknowledge the good things we do. Similarly, I feel that a shift in the way this country supports those in need and in the attitude of some towards those who have, would open a different avenue of help and would force ordinary citizens to reach out to those who need it.