Blame the Planes?

[starang21]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
If a object such as a Plane strikes an object such at the Towers, doesnt this deplete the structual capacity and Integreity of the Steel that built it?

Then thrown in the Heat from Fire lessen it more?

Basic Chemistery will tell You that!

of course, but as evidenced from the amount of time that it took for the towers to collapse....it's obvious that the impact had nothing to do with it.

those buildings might have swayed a a few inches or even a foot or so at most upon impact.

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by RACooper
I don't mean to be so insulting, but this Dr. Jones, well his paper would have about as much chance of making it through a peer-review up here as a someone hitting the non-alcoholic beer on St. Patty's day - sure it could happen... but the chances of that happening...

It's not like this is a guy who is widely respected by the intellectual public down here in the U.S. either; and quite honestly, I think it's kind of ridiculous that this poster is trying to hammer this down everyone's throats, but doesn't even acknowledge the contradictory evidence that is being offered by other posters.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by starang21
of course, but as evidenced from the amount of time that it took for the towers to collapse....it's obvious that the impact had nothing to do with it.

those buildings might have swayed a a few inches or even a foot or so at most upon impact.

Was the sway factor in the original perameters(?) With a force such as a Plane striking?

Any time there is a massive blow to a structure is there not a shock value to the metal that is transmitted for a way through the structure? Metal is a conduit isnt it? Add Heat to the formula and does this compound the situation?

For what ever reason, both Towers came down.

[starang21]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Was the sway factor in the original perameters(?) With a force such as a Plane striking?

Any time there is a massive blow to a structure is there not a shock value to the metal that is transmitted for a way through the structure? Metal is a conduit isnt it? Add Heat to the formula and does this compound the situation?

For what ever reason, both Towers came down.

hell i don't know, i'm not the design engineer. metal being a conduit has nothing to do with it. i don't know what the building code required the design engineer to design for.

engineers always design for lateral loads, whether it be wind or earthquakes.

so side movement is always taken into account.

[GA-Beta]

Dr. Steven Jones, the physics professor involved in the so-called "9-11 Truth Movement" has been suspended by BYU.

Two weeks ago he published his theory in a paper called "Why Indeed did the World Trade Center Buildings Collapse?" In it, the professor says the towers fell not because of planes hitting them but rather pre-positioned demolition charges.

The other side: the State Department has released a rebuttal to Jones' theory in a 10-thousand page report.

BYU's statement:

"Physics Professor Steven Jones has made numerous statements about the collapse of the World Trade Center. BYU has repeatedly said that it does not endorse assertions made by individual faculty.

"We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."

The university added, "BYU remains concerned that Dr. Jones' works on this topic has not been published in appropriate scientific venues."

[starang21]

Originally Posted by GA-Beta

Dr. Steven Jones, the physics professor involved in the so-called "9-11 Truth Movement" has been suspended by BYU.

Two weeks ago he published his theory in a paper called "Why Indeed did the World Trade Center Buildings Collapse?" In it, the professor says the towers fell not because of planes hitting them but rather pre-positioned demolition charges.

The other side: the State Department has released a rebuttal to Jones' theory in a 10-thousand page report.

BYU's statement:

"Physics Professor Steven Jones has made numerous statements about the collapse of the World Trade Center. BYU has repeatedly said that it does not endorse assertions made by individual faculty.

"We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."

The university added, "BYU remains concerned that Dr. Jones' works on this topic has not been published in appropriate scientific venues."

if he continues on this path, he'll be laughed out of academia

LOL

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Deke4life

Actually, as Dr. Jones notes Building number 7 had minor to moderate fires, Also, In the History of Steel buildings, never has one ever colpapsed due to fire. I would encourage you to read the article and especially Dr. Jones' paper:

Article
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635160132,00

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_314234334.html

Paper: http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

Minor or moderate fires??????
Not sure what this guy saw or looked at but as a NY'er, sure looked rather major to my eyes......have to go look for a link I saw the other day on this stuff-explains it rather well....

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by starang21

if he continues on this path, he'll be laughed out of academia

LOL

You mean he hasn't been already?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Deke4life

1.The point is: Larry Silverstein purchased the buildings 1,2, and 7, then finalized a massive record breaking insurance deal just six weeks prior to 9-11... - which would satisfy motive for building 7 under Dr. Jones' hypothesis... - Although, I still maintain that my qualitative speculation here should be considered independently from the physics in this matter (quantitative data):

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2003...6_person.shtml

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/background/owners.html

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news...6/07/15925.htm


*2. And of course, *most importantly*, the Operation Northwoods documents explain the potential motive for buildings 1 and 2, as well as somewhat building 7:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods



I would also like to add here that Marvin Bush was hired as head of security for the entire complex.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911security.html


3. and... that the person who was in charge of certifying the steel in those buildings does not see any reason why those buildings should have colapsed due to fire or any type of fuel.

here is his letter of obvious concern:

http://www.septembereleventh.org/new...11-11-ryan.php

Thus Dr. Jones' hypothesis :

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


a hypothesis which is echoed by many others, including many engineers. Here is just one example:

PHYSICS 911 is created and maintained by a group of scientists, engineers and other professionals known collectively as the Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-eleven

http://physics911.net/

Perhaps he didn't see any reason why it failed because they didn't design the building to withstand a couple of huge jet airliners crashing into it with an ass-load of jet fuel in them. I mean Jesus Christ, every structural engineer I have seen or witnessed talking about it has agreed to this point.......and frankly, I am sure as hell going to listen to extremely well respected engineers over your wack job dumbass "Dr" of physics.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Deke4life

Fortunatley... Im not using those sources. Pointing at other people that may or may not promote some of the ideas in my hypothesis is unfair and illogical deamonization. I suggest that everyone read my last post in its entirity, including the links.

Operation Northwoods (links provided in my last post) was an official U.S. government plan to carry out acts of terrorism to incite a desired state of public opinion. - this could be the motive that would satisfy Dr. Jones' hypothesis. - and its just that... its a hypothesis, to be tested against others...

I am open to other ideas - (and I am aware they exist), but I am very concerned, especially given the obvious problems outlined in Dr. Jones' paper and others, including the potential motive that exists. FEMA owes the American public a better investigation.

Do you and this "Dr. Jones" share homosexual fantasies? Frankly, i'm getting a little creeped out by you and your "Dr. Jones."

Dr. Jones = Indiana = Harrison Ford =

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Perhaps he didn't see any reason why it failed because they didn't design the building to withstand a couple of huge jet airliners crashing into it with an ass-load of jet fuel in them. I mean Jesus Christ, every structural engineer I have seen or witnessed talking about it has agreed to this point.......and frankly, I am sure as hell going to listen to extremely well respected engineers over your wack job dumbass "Dr" of physics.

And #7 had a lot of fuel, in non-FDNY approved storage, for "American's Mayor's" ECP back-up generators.

[jon1856]

Here, for the people who care to read, learn and understand, some links I found in a down and dirty search:
http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.shtml

http://wtc.nist.gov/

http://www.iti.northwestern.edu/research/wtc/index.html

http://architecture.about.com/librar.../aa091201a.htm

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/r..._april0505.htm

http://www.911-strike.com/BazantZhou.htm

http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/

http://greenyes.grrn.org/2001/09/msg00129.html

[greekalum]

Man, I am amazed BYU let him continue on their faculty for so long. That school has certainly not hesitated to dropkick faculty promptly for far less inflammatory public statements.

[starang21]

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever...Sozen.WTC.html

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase3/

i think i'll believe this guy over everyone else.

Dr. Sozen is one of the most influential structural engineers of the 20th century, and i am humbled by the fact that i was able to learn from him.