A very dressy FLORIDA STATE recruitment!

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by GTAlphaPhi

Or perhaps there were simply too many open-minded, motivated PNM's for the colony to take. Alabama's Alpha Phi turned away hundreds of girls (way more than FSU). At competitive schools like Alabama and FSU, one thing remains the same regardless of colony or installed status: too many qualified, interested ladies and and not enough spots.

Which is really a shame because instead of those women becoming excited, motivated representatives of what is great about being Greek, I imagine many of them become outspoken critics of the system and carry a bad feeling with them the rest of their lives.

[GTAlphaPhi]

PNM at FSU, I wouldn't give up on the possibility of Alpha Phi doing COB in the future. As with installed chapters, girls will drop out of school, transfer to another school, or disaffiliate because they realize Greek life won't work out for them (finances, academics, jobs, etc.).

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

This is such a bummer! It is certainly easier as a bystander to say hey, you screwed up, you didn't consider all of your options, whatever, but for both of these gals, they seemed to do everything right, have the attitude, the ambition, and courtesy that should have been just what any of the sororities would want. I just wish I could hug both of them and tell them it will all be ok. At least PNM and PPT have each other and they know they aren't going through this alone. But that's not much consolation! I'm so sorry.

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

What she said. It's really a shame when a system has no place for such open-minded, motivated PNMs.

Originally Posted by BraveMaroon

Maybe I'm completely out of touch, and if I am, I'm sure you'll tell me - but this story and the one from other young woman at FSU make me think that maybe something could be reworked on this campus?

I mean, from the outside, it sounds like there are plenty of women who want to be in a sorority, but aren't, for whatever reason getting chosen. Grades? OK, that's one thing. But rejected because you aren't a Freshman? I don't get it.

But the fact that a new colony has space for 170 and has 360 interested (and presumably mostly qualified) applicants? It sounds to me that supply is not meeting demand. Which, at least to me, says that they might want to take a long hard look at things.

It just seems a little lopsided.

Am I oversimplifying? Probably - but it's stories like this that make me feel bad about the system I'm a part of.

I know that everyone is hurting for these women, and trust me I am too. It sucks to be in that situation.

However, it really is just a case of having more wonderful applicants than you can take. It happens everywhere where there is a large scale colonization such as this one.

Colony numbers are determined by average chapter size at that school. It's not some arbitrary number that is just made up, and it's not determined by "supply/demand." It's the size that Panhellenic and APhi decided would make for a strong chapter.

I dunno, I just don't want people going the wrong way here and assertng that Alpha Phi is somehow in the wrong for not taking on more women.

[Low C Sharp]

I don't read the post you quoted as blaming Alpha Phi for not taking more...but that the system as a whole is supposed to accommodate all the qualified women, and that does not seem to be the case at FSU. There's something wrong system-wide if great women are open to all houses and still get cut.
________

[BraveMaroon]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I dunno, I just don't want people going the wrong way here and assertng that Alpha Phi is somehow in the wrong for not taking on more women.

Actually, I lob that assertion not against Alpha Phi, or any specific house on that campus - I would say that Greek Life at FSU may want to reconsider house totals, but I'm certainly not saying that any one house is doing something wrong - I think they're all following rules, and that's fine.

But I can't see any reason why, for girls who are willing to "maximize their options", there shouldn't be a bid somewhere.

[KSUViolet06]

Meh. I still don't think there is something necessarly wrong with the system because girls aren't placed. The majority of PNMs are. Remember, there are many variables that go into Membership Selection. We just aren't in a position to say for sure whether someone should/shouldn't have received a bid.

At any rate, FSU is a really great school, and I do hope that our PNMs find ways to get involved in activities that interest them and have a great college experience. That's important because you never get a "do over" of your college years.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by BraveMaroon

Actually, I lob that assertion not against Alpha Phi, or any specific house on that campus - I would say that Greek Life at FSU may want to reconsider house totals

House totals have absolutely nothing to do with this. The sororities are allowed to go over total (sometimes WAY WAY over total) when the quota system is used. Girls who maximize their options DO usually end up with bids. "Maximize your options" does not mean the sororities cannot cut women along the way. That's their right. There's one school that we know of that has guaranteed bidding and basically what happens at the end is that there are PNMs everyone has tried to drop, and one or the other sorority has to suck it up and take them. Would you want to receive a bid in that manner? I know I wouldn't.

And I hate to say it, but if yinz think this is messy and unfair - wait till next fall and DG at UA. I wouldn't be surprised if they have almost as many girls coming out for that colony as they do for rush, period.

PNM at FSU - I'm sorry that you were disappointed.

[thetygerlily]

I agree, to a point. Let's be honest, not everyone is appropriate for the Greek system. Then it becomes an assortment of clubs rather than selective membership organizations.

However- when more than twice as many are interested in a colony than they have room for, it makes me wonder. Are those numbers typical? It makes sense that a colony doesn't just accept everyone (mutual selection and all) and I know some will go for a colony that wouldn't go through formal, but if there are that many women that are interested chances are a good portion of them would make great sisters somewhere. No we will never solve the issue of not matching everyone- and that's okay.

I obviously don't have access to the stats so my data points are limited, but both PNM & PPT are sophomores and based on others' comments it sounds like there's a large disadvantage at going through there as an upperclassmen. Maybe an upperclassmen quota is something that would help out here.

PNM & PPT... best wishes to you both.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Meh. I still don't think there is something necessarly wrong with the system because girls aren't placed. The majority of PNMs are. Remember, there are many variables that go into Membership Selection. We just aren't in a position to say for sure whether someone should/shouldn't have received a bid.

I tend to agree. I sympathize with PPT and PNM and totally encourage them to keep an eye out for COB opportunities, should they still want to be in a sorority, but I have to believe that on most levels, the system works. If it doesn't, and people are going to get all up in arms about it, then find a solution that works and get hopping on making that happen.

Furthermore, if Alpha Phi is turning these PNMs away in great numbers, the system is built in such a way that future colonies may be established, should that be the choice of the CPC and university along with other member groups in the NPC. It won't help PPT and PNM, but every colony established is a step in the direction of more inclusiveness on the part of Greek Life at FSU.

It might be naive, I just really hesitate to throw out a "baaah the system doesn't work! The system sucks" when we're currently at a loss as to what changes could be made (aside from guaranteeing placement, adding an upperclassmen quota, raising total, and bringing another colony on campus - I'm talking the bare bones of the NPC formal recruitment process here) which would make it better.

It's a total bummer for both of you guys. Good luck with COR, should you choose or have the opportunity to participate, and good luck in your college years.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by thetygerlily

Maybe an upperclassmen quota is something that would help out here.

That is something lacking at FSU and hopefully that will be remedied.

But as far as new colonies...could FSU conceivably have a campus where every NPC group has a good sized chapter? Yes. IF the PNMs and the campus in general would be open to joining groups that are new, or not as much name recognition in the area, or not as much alum support. You have to start somewhere. But it is so, so, so costly, in plain old $$$ and in man-hours, to start a colony someplace like this and the thought of it not succeeding is the kind of thing that keeps national councillors up at night.

In other words, if it was that dang easy to do it, everyone would have already done it.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Re: upperclassman quota

I don't know enough about FSU's campus to comment on whether this is the best idea for them, so again, I will defer to those who do.

However, there is a very real risk that an upperclassman quota can hurt the smaller chapters in two ways:

1) PNM's who don't like their invites freshman year are far more likely to drop out and think they can give it another go next year.

2) Chapters that often hit quota by taking some of the sophomore released everywhere else will no longer have that way to help their numbers.

3) There may even be PNM's who wait to rush to avoid live-in requirements.

Just saying that there are downsides, and an upperclassman quota would not necessarily mean more women got placed in chapters.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Re: upperclassman quota

I don't know enough about FSU's campus to comment on whether this is the best idea for them, so again, I will defer to those who do.

However, there is a very real risk that an upperclassman quota can hurt the smaller chapters in two ways:

1) PNM's who don't like their invites freshman year are far more likely to drop out and think they can give it another go next year.

2) Chapters that often hit quota by taking some of the sophomore released everywhere else will no longer have that way to help their numbers.

3) There may even be PNM's who wait to rush to avoid live-in requirements.

Just saying that there are downsides, and an upperclassman quota would not necessarily mean more women got placed in chapters.

1) You can't fix stupid.

2) There are enough women rushing that it shouldn't be a problem.

3) Again, you can't fix stupid. If anything, they're more screwed because I don't think live-in reqs say you must live there "junior year" or whatever...just that you must live there for x amount of time. If you're a senior living in a house full of sophomores, it's your own fault.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

1) You can't fix stupid.

2) There are enough women rushing that it shouldn't be a problem.

3) Again, you can't fix stupid. If anything, they're more screwed because I don't think live-in reqs say you must live there "junior year" or whatever...just that you must live there for x amount of time. If you're a senior living in a house full of sophomores, it's your own fault.

If you know the campus, and it's the right thing to do, I certainly think it is an option. My point is just that it is not a one-size-fits-all solution that can be applied without considering a bunch of other things first.

[FSUCasper]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Re: upperclassman quota

I don't know enough about FSU's campus to comment on whether this is the best idea for them, so again, I will defer to those who do.

However, there is a very real risk that an upperclassman quota can hurt the smaller chapters in two ways:

1) PNM's who don't like their invites freshman year are far more likely to drop out and think they can give it another go next year.

2) Chapters that often hit quota by taking some of the sophomore released everywhere else will no longer have that way to help their numbers.

3) There may even be PNM's who wait to rush to avoid live-in requirements.

Just saying that there are downsides, and an upperclassman quota would not necessarily mean more women got placed in chapters.

All of these are valid points that need to be considered; however, with the renewed interest in greeklife membership at FSU, even given the current economy, I think FSU PH needs to seriously consider (1) increasing campus chapter total (which I have heard through the grapevine may be increased from 150 to 170 this semester - which may open up some chapters to COB in spring - especially with more than a handful graduating from each chapter in December every year), (2) definitely set an upperclassman quota, and (3) look at extending to an additional NPC chapter within the next 2 years, if these numbers remain that high. FSU Recruitment has gotten way too, competitive and especially impacting further the current anti-legacy trend in most chapters on campus - it is not helping with their continued alumnae support base that's for sure. However, having said all of that, unfortunately, there is still at least one struggling chapter on campus who did not make quota this year and remains about half the size of other chapters - by choice? I don't know the answer, but maybe, if so, then they are finally getting more quality women. Either that, or they are playing their numbers game wrong and focusing on PNM's who may release them anyway. And, as strong as this chapter's alumnae are in the area, they still need help with Recruitment. Either way, FSU needs to look long and hard at their options for improving the process.

[FSUZeta]

every chapter at fsu has met quota for the past several years, according to my information. most of the sororities are above total. The houses typically house between 50-80 members-i can't imagine how they do dinners now-i would imagine they had to go to buffet service.

as at any university, colonization is expensive, but on a campus like fsu, where most of the sororities own their own homes and the homes are absolutely breathtaking,not to mention historical and rim the campus, it is very costly. to be competitive the sorority would have to eventually be housed. there are no lots available-the majority of the houses have been where they are for a loooooong time. there are some sorority houses that fraternities are currently renting that may become available for new groups in the future. i would imagine that sororities would much prefer for other sororities to rent their houses.

there are lots where the fraternities have built houses, but that is off campus and i would pity any sorority who built there. it would not be fun to be out there with the boys! too wild!

i hope that fsu(and uf) will consider an upperclasswoman quota. It seems they work out very well on the campuses that use them, but even if they use one, it will not be a panacea.

typically, colonies are given a few years to get their act together before another group is brought on and i agree with this philosophy. it does no good to bring on a colony/chapter if they are not given the chance to thrive.