A disconnect with legacies?

[JFFMom]

Originally Posted by carnation

Psst! JFF! I just looked on our website and it still says granddaughters!

Thanks Carnation - I must have missed that - I need to look at the Rec and Legacy introduction forms again! I thought both had indicated only daughters and sisters. I filled out a ton of them but don't want to be incorrect again.

I guess this means I should still keep my badge to pass down given that there's still hope for me to have another Pi Phi in the family someday! But of course I'm really "jumping the gun", I don't even have granddaughters yet. LOL

[DubaiSis]

I think the way Alpha Xi words it works great. If the alumna CONSIDERS herself the relative of the rushee and she fits in those categories, then she is. I should think that would handle the stepmother who's 7 years older than you and has seen you 3 times in 5 years.

[FSUZeta]

the KSU info. on ZTA legacies is WRONG. ZTA legacies are daughters, sisters or granddaughters.

[MysticCat]

^^^^ My point is that it's not a choice between being offensive and being "PC." This is the statement that I quoted above and that I have a problem with:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

*PC is a bullshit phrase mostly made up and used by people who think that being polite infringes too much on their freedom to use offensive words. Being "un-PC" is not a thing, there's usually just being "an asshole." Like trying to find out if a PNM's mom is a) alive, b) really loves her or just kind of likes her or c) abandoned her and lives in Europe.

If people are using their aversion to PC to justify being offensive, then that's a valid problem. But the fact that some people do that doesn't mean that there aren't real PC police out there.

[33girl]

My point was that just because you call someone the "correct" term, doesn't meant that you are also treating them nicely or equally. To put it in Greek terms, you can call people "new members" and still be hazing them in other ways.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

My point was that just because you call someone the "correct" term, doesn't meant that you are also treating them nicely or equally. To put it in Greek terms, you can call people "new members" and still be hazing them in other ways.

Right, I didn't say anything about equality, just politeness.

That's not being PC that's being polite.

Now, being polite and still treating people like shit still makes you an asshole, but at least you're a polite asshole, I suppose.
Example: "Gay and lesbian individuals should not get married because they can't make babies." "African-American families during slavery were better off than they are now." Polite in their language usage but still assholes.

Treating people nicely and equally in every way but using the terms that they prefer to call themselves still... makes you an asshole.
Example:
"You queers can get married now you fudge-packers*."
and
"N****** are people too."

These will not make you friends either.

Tl;dr: words and actions both count, so you can't pretend the words are just superfluous.

[UGAalum94]

Yep, MysticCat. You are right.

[KSUViolet06]

Steps aren't specifically mentioned with us either, but chapters are encouraged to give them the courtesies of a legacy as if she were a daughter.

I've seen alumnae send in recs for stepchildren and in the legacy portion (our reference and legacy forms are the same thing) just check "daughter." Especially if the member has been the child's stepmother for a long time (ex: if you've been someone's stepmom since they were 3, they're essentially your daughter.)

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

^^^^ My point is that it's not a choice between being offensive and being "PC." This is the statement that I quoted above and that I have a problem with:If people are using their aversion to PC to justify being offensive, then that's a valid problem. But the fact that some people do that doesn't mean that there aren't real PC police out there.

No I'm really sticking by that. I feel like you're setting up a strawman here though. I'm not saying that. It's not a choice between being polite and offensive, it's not all black or white, there are plenty of shades of gray. There are, however, plenty of people who bitch about the concept of "political correctness" because it ~infringes~ upon their ~*RIGHT*~ to say offensive things. "Why can't I say queer, they say queer," etc.

In 33girl's case it was the equivalent of "no disrespect, but," or "I'm not a racist, but." Once those words are said, we all know what's coming next.

I'm not going to say "yeah there are 'PC police' because those people are being idiots (even if theoretically well meaning ones at times), and one can hardly call them the PC police when they're being the exact opposite of what "PC" supposedly is. There are assholes who try to correct others' language in an assholy way and they're just assholes, not PC police*.

*Actual members of the minority group are excepted from being called assholes just for not being nice about correcting someone. After the billionth time hearing an offensive term, I really don't think anyone's obligated to be nice about it.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Steps aren't specifically mentioned with us either, but chapters are encouraged to give them the courtesies of a legacy as if she were a daughter.

I've seen alumnae send in recs for stepchildren and in the legacy portion (our reference and legacy forms are the same thing) just check "daughter." Especially if the member has been the child's stepmother for a long time (ex: if you've been someone's stepmom since they were 3, they're essentially your daughter.)

This is what I was thinking. Steps wouldn't be excluded, but implicitly included.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

In 33girl's case it was the equivalent of "no disrespect, but," or "I'm not a racist, but." Once those words are said, we all know what's coming next.

Like I said, if you have a better way to say what I was trying to say, lay it on me. Or are you saying it is OK to say that there's a difference between stepparents who have played a parental role and those who haven't, and legacy status should reflect that?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Like I said, if you have a better way to say what I was trying to say, lay it on me. Or are you saying it is OK to say that there's a difference between stepparents who have played a parental role and those who haven't, and legacy status should reflect that?

Actually if you'd read the rest of my posts rather than the tiny bits you quoted, I addressed that.

Since there's no way to address any level of parental involvement other than the fact they provided the legacy form itself, it's not really relevant. Our legacy policies don't look like this for a reason:

~~~ XYZ will give special consideration to every daughter, granddaughter and sister of a member, who is at least active enough in the sorority to be considered an active alumna member, and who has a thorough and loving relationship with her family member that is both supportive and educative in the policies and practices of sorority membership, recruitment and the lifelong commitment required without promising said family member membership or any expectation of guaranteed membership. Extra special consideration will be given to any of the above relatives of a member if they are named after a sorority founder or donated to the sorority foundation at birth. All donations are tax deductible. ~~~

[ComradesTrue]

This is how steps are referenced in our legacy policy:

A Theta legacy is defined as a daughter, granddaughter, great-granddaughter, or sister of a Kappa Alpha Theta. Stepdaughters, step granddaughters, step great-granddaughters, and stepsisters are considered legacies if their family considers them as such and if the family asks that they be considered as such on the legacy introduction form. These women deserve special consideration.

(emphasis mine)

That seems to cover both bases: the step who raised a girl since she was 3 would be considered a legacy, since the family defines their relationship as mother-daughter. It would then exclude the 25 year old step-mother when real dad had his mid-life crisis, since clearly that is not a mother/daughter relationship.

It also better defines the step-sister situation, since again, some of these step-sisters could have grown up together, whereas others grew up across the country with virtually no interaction.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No I'm really sticking by that. I feel like you're setting up a strawman here though.

I get that. But I'm sticking by my position, too. In my experience, there's more to the concept of political correctness than just

a bullshit phrase mostly made up and used by people who think that being polite infringes too much on their freedom to use offensive words.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I get that. But I'm sticking by my position, too. In my experience, there's more to the concept of political correctness than just

Fair enough. I'm not saying the phenomena you describe don't exist but I don't label them as part of political correctness because I don't find any validity to the phrase. If that makes sense.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

This is an old thread, but I was just thinking about how a lot of PNM's think they are legacies when they are not. I remember going through with a LOT of women who claimed to be "legacies" to XYZ through aunts or cousins. I think it is generally a bad idea to list your legacy status on your Panhellenic paperwork anyway, but it occurs to me that other chapters could see someone is a legacy and release her, when it turns out she really isn't, anyway.