Shooting at Northern Illinois University

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Grateful that most of the students at NIU are uninjured, and in somber memory of those killed, I have to ask when we are going to start holding these universities and other schools accountable.

When are we going to recognize that someone like this shooter, with no criminal history, can do something so evil, and allow our students and professors to take charge of their own safety?

When are we going to point out that Illinois legislators are culpable? They have removed the option for law-abiding citizens to do anything but phone 911 and wait helplessly?

When are we going to push for the right to defend ourselves, our families, our brethren? When will we INSIST on having the CHOICE to defend ourselves?

I'm disgusted at any university administration and any legislature that does not permit self-defense.

Tess-- I am actually coming around to your way of thinking. Last semester, some students at the university where I worked wanted to see a change in policy to allow students to carry (legally acquired and permitted) guns on campus, in light of what happened at Virginia Tech. Today I read something that basically said that most gunmen know if they visit a college/university campus, they know that there likely won't be any resistance. But, if they know people carry there, they may think twice. After all, you rarely hear of gun shows being the target of a gunman.

Yes, I still worry about sick, immature or stupid people with weapons BUT laws don't stop those people from doing what they intend. I don't know--I find it so sad that we keep feeling these losses, and I am out of ideas about how to address it without allowing people to arm themselves.

[SWTXBelle]

FYI - the Luby's massacre in Killeen was a major factor in the the passage of the concealed carry law in Texas.

And I can't imagine the pain of those parents - and fellow students, faculty and staff.

[LatinaAlumna]

Update: There were more greeks involved:

Ryanne Mace, of Delta Psi Alpha Co-Ed Fraternity was killed.

Her fellow member, Maria Ruiz, is in critical condition.

I received this information from an email over the NALFO listserve. My condolences to these families.

[jon1856]

Gunman's Friendly Exterior Masked Past


By ASHLEY M. HEHER and CARYN ROUSSEAU,
AP
Posted: 2008-02-16 06:58:46
Filed Under: Nation News
DEKALB, Ill. (Feb. 16) - Steven Kazmierczak's quiet, dependable and fun-loving exterior masked troubling details from his past that emerged as a stunned community struggled to understand what caused the 27-year-old to open fire on a class at Northern Illinois University, leaving six people dead.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/gunmans...14171009990001

How the NIU Massacre Happened

The first thing Lhee Santos remembers of the worst afternoon of his life was the tall, thin man kicking open the door on the lecture hall's right side. It was 3:06 p.m. and the intruder walked onto the stage, startling the professor, Joseph Peterson. The unannounced visitor bore several weapons, including a 12-gauge shotgun, a 9-mm glock pistol and two other pistols. He wore jeans and a t-shirt and carried a guitar case. The 150 or so students in the introductory geology class thought it was all just a joke. That is, until the gunfire started. The first body down was the professor's.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...eed-cnn-topics

[KDAngel]

Dan Parmenter was the Pi Kappa Alpha that was killed. He's closely connected to my best friend, so it's so crazy to feel so connected to this.

He dated Lauren Debrauwere (the Sigma Kappa who was shot and is in critical, but stable condition). She was sitting right next to him when he was killed. I can't even imagine that... I'm just happy she's alive.

The names of everyone's out there now, I don't feel bad posting. I think if anything it'd be good to pray for Lauren to get well and to be able to cope with this horrible tragedy.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by KDAngel

Dan Parmenter was the Pi Kappa Alpha that was killed. He's closely connected to my best friend, so it's so crazy to feel so connected to this.

He dated Lauren Debrauwere (the Sigma Kappa who was shot and is in critical, but stable condition). She was sitting right next to him when he was killed. I can't even imagine that... I'm just happy she's alive.

The names of everyone's out there now, I don't feel bad posting. I think if anything it'd be good to pray for Lauren to get well and to be able to cope with this horrible tragedy.

I can understand you feelings and perhaps others here can as well.
I too have had a few (too many) close ties to some events in the past.
"Crazy" is only one term you can use.

I think I can say the just about most of the US and parts of the World have everyone who was involved in their thoughts, minds and hearts.

[barbino]

Knowing that there would be a thread on the shooting at NIU on GC, I deliberately gave myself a few days to deal with my emotions before posting. It seems that the older I get, the more emotional I become, and episodes like this can bring it out in all of us. Yes, I know several NIU alums. I could have gone there myself. It's all over the news in Chicago, and every news brief has an update on the story.

The shooting was senseless and tragic - like many others, I am left asking, "Why?" The last news update said that there was no suicide note left by the shooter, and because of this, we may never know what caused him to do this. Right now, I am sadly pondering this last bit of information.

[knight_shadow]

Oops.

[LatinaAlumna]

^They do have a chapter there, but the women involved are from Delta Psi Alpha Co-Ed Fraternity:

http://www.deltapsialpha.com/

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by LatinaAlumna

^They do have a chapter there, but the women involved are from Delta Psi Alpha Co-Ed Fraternity:

http://www.deltapsialpha.com/

I searched for about 3 hours trying to find that link. My mistake!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DGTess

THIS IS A RANT AGAINST THOSE NANNY-STATE UNIVERSITY ADMINISTRATORS AND LEGISLATORS WHO WOULD MAKE STUDENTS HELPLESS. These students were SHOT, for god's sake. They could do NOTHING to help themselves. They could do NOTHING to help others. They were fish in a barrel

If you want to start a pity-party thread, go ahead. This is a news and politics forum, with a newsworthy event, and legislators who won't protect us.

Administrators and legislators aren't the only reason the gun laws are the way they are. Many students, teachers, and tax payers in general do not think guns should be in the vicinity of educational institutions unless they are in the hands of security and law enforcement officials.

Students, instructors, and administrators are relieved by this because when you make such weapon carrying an option, you are basically forcing everyone else to either pick up arms also or get out of dodge.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

Tess-- I am actually coming around to your way of thinking. Last semester, some students at the university where I worked wanted to see a change in policy to allow students to carry (legally acquired and permitted) guns on campus, in light of what happened at Virginia Tech. Today I read something that basically said that most gunmen know if they visit a college/university campus, they know that there likely won't be any resistance. But, if they know people carry there, they may think twice. After all, you rarely hear of gun shows being the target of a gunman.

School shootings are still a rarity.

If legislators make gun toting students legal and a potential nonrarity, there may be an increase in gun violence. For every student who claims to want a gun just in case a psycho starts to shoot, there will be a student who has a gun because an instructor pissed them off or because they have been hurt in some way. Let's not increase the gun availability for potential psychos or encourage Rambo students who want to defend campus. There aren't and won't be enough safety measures at schools to account for nonlaw enforcement agents legally having guns on campuses and in classrooms.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

School shootings are still a rarity.

If legislators make gun toting students legal and a potential nonrarity, there may be an increase in gun violence. For every student who claims to want a gun just in case a psycho starts to shoot, there will be a student who has a gun because an instructor pissed them off or because they have been hurt in some way. Let's not increase the gun availability for potential psychos or encourage Rambo students who want to defend campus. There aren't and won't be enough safety measures at schools to account for nonlaw enforcement agents legally having guns on campuses and in classrooms.

Replace "student" with "citizen" and "campus" or "school" with "Earth". Students who are over 21, have passed the background checks (two - one for the gun purchase and a second for the permit), have taken the required training, and have mentally prepared themselves to carry are permitted to carry on the sidewalk outside the campus, but not across some invisible line.

You can see how well current "policies" and laws work.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Replace "student" with "citizen" and "campus" or "school" with "Earth". Students who are over 21, have passed the background checks (two - one for the gun purchase and a second for the permit), have taken the required training, and have mentally prepared themselves to carry are permitted to carry on the sidewalk outside the campus, but not across some invisible line.

You can see how well current "policies" and laws work.

There's no need to replace anything with anything. Students do not need to carry guns to colleges and universities just like employees do not need to carry guns to work if their jobs do not require gun access.

All this about background checks, training, and mental preparation is a theoretical assumption. In real life, it does not and will not work like that.

Current policies and laws work quite well. School shootings are still a rarity and are not a result of failed gun laws. Some of the general public is just scared now because school shootings have hit too close to home and that fear sensationalizes the issue. I look back to what happened when terrorized citizens bought guns in the 1990s because drug dealers had them (and used them). But gun carrying citizens did not reduce the violence in drug and violence-infested neighborhoods. It increased it, which is one reason why law enforcement began gun buyback programs.

Anyway, none of this matters because students, faculty, and staff in most areas will never be allowed to have guns around or on campuses. That's the reality of the matter.

[DeltAlum]

Agree with Chaos.