what do i have to give back?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by tld221

ido you mean size-wise or popularity-wise?

also, tell me if this is too big of an assumption, but does telling a PNM that they are a member from bid day forward bring more appeal to a rushee vs. saying "you have no rights to our letters until initiation?" and i know THIS discussion has been had before, but (NPHC aside) i think a clearer boundary would lessen these scenarios.

I've had more caffeine now, so maybe I'll make more sense. (not a guarantee)

NPHC aspirants research the groups and choose to pursue membership in the one they feel the most connection with. There are 4 NPHC groups. If NPC went about acquiring new members in the same way, can you imagine researching all 26 groups in the same manner? It seems like it would turn into a contest among the NPCs as to who had the most name recognition, and that's who would survive. I know not all the NPHCs are the same size, but I also have gotten the impression that the average NPHC rushee has at least HEARD of all the groups.

As to your second question - I think people don't value as much what is given too easily. I'm not talking about letter sweatshirts, I'm talking about membership in general.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

NPC sororities view recruitment as a 24/7/365 approach so part of the appeal of telling PNM's that they are members after bid day is that their friends will see them participating in sorority activities and wearing letters and will see the amount of fun that the new members are having and will want to join as a result of that.

recruitment for ALL greek orgs are 24/7, whether it is programs/events held or merely eating lunch with your sisters in the caf. and i can understand people seeing their friends with letters and saying "oh thats cool, maybe i should join." but we all know you dont need to wear letters to represent your org. especially if you JUST joined.

i compare it to being an athlete who gets a medal BEFORE they finish competing. who knows what they will place, if at all. you get the perks of saying "i'm a gold/silver/bronze medalist in _________" before you actually did it. i just feel like having the rights to letters that early on gives less of an "i earned these letters" mentality. unless such doesnt exist within NPC - is that right?

[tld221]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I've had more caffeine now, so maybe I'll make more sense. (not a guarantee)

NPHC aspirants research the groups and choose to pursue membership in the one they feel the most connection with. There are 4 NPHC groups. If NPC went about acquiring new members in the same way, can you imagine researching all 26 groups in the same manner? It seems like it would turn into a contest among the NPCs as to who had the most name recognition, and that's who would survive. I know not all the NPHCs are the same size, but I also have gotten the impression that the average NPHC rushee has at least HEARD of all the groups.

As to your second question - I think people don't value as much what is given too easily. I'm not talking about letter sweatshirts, I'm talking about membership in general.

girl that caffeine is the truth, cause that makes total sense - the big orgs will get bigger, the smaller orgs will get smaller. and trust, NPHC has its share of 'name recognition' as well. thx!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

My undergrad chapter had housing for a considerable period of our history on campus. We ran things regarding membership/recruitment the same when we didn't have the house as when we did. What exactly would be different, and why?

How big was your house, and how many (average) were in your chapter? More to the point - if this isn't divulging too much - how many women did you have wanting to join?

Unfortunately, sometimes NPC & NIC rush becomes about filling the house because the campus culture demands you have a house that holds 70 or however many people.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by tld221

recruitment for ALL greek orgs are 24/7, whether it is programs/events held or merely eating lunch with your sisters in the caf. and i can understand people seeing their friends with letters and saying "oh thats cool, maybe i should join." but we all know you dont need to wear letters to represent your org. especially if you JUST joined.

i compare it to being an athlete who gets a medal BEFORE they finish competing. who knows what they will place, if at all. you get the perks of saying "i'm a gold/silver/bronze medalist in _________" before you actually did it. i just feel like having the rights to letters that early on gives less of an "i earned these letters" mentality. unless such doesnt exist within NPC - is that right?

When I initiated into my NPC group in 1992, we were not permitted to wear letters during our pledge period. We could wear the words spelled out (i.e. - Alpha Gam or Alpha Gamma Delta), but not the Greek letters.

Things changed at some point around the time I was graduating. NPC groups (or at least the decision makers) took the stance that not allowing new members to wear the Greek letters was a form of hazing. This was also around the same time where the term "new member" vs. "pledge" was starting to be implemented. Therefore, in my own chapter and in other groups on our campus, new members were permitted to wear the Greek letters.

At the time, I wasn't terribly fond of the change. (After all, its human nature to resist change!) However, now that I reflect on it with a few more years perspective...the reason I respected my organization and wanted to uphold the standards of membership as a pledge wasn't to earn the opportunity to wear the letters. It was because I respected my sisters, our history (both on an individual chapter level and on the International level), our Purpose. Not being permitted to wear the Greek letters really didn't have much bearing on my actions one way or the other.

The meaning and symbolism of the Greek letters is explained to us at Initiation, and that's the important part. Anyone can walk into a Greek store and buy a lettered item, or obtain it by other purposes. (As evidenced by the fact that there was an old man who was frequently spotted picking through dumpsters at my campus, and he always wore a Sigma Delta Tau hat. Certainly the Sigma Delta Tau pledges at our campus had more of a right to wear their letters than he did. )

I personally found it more meaningful to learn all of the secret meanings of the symbols and letters at initiation, than finally being able to wear a lettered sweatshirt. (Again, this is after 15 years perspective since initiating - as I mentioned, I griped along with everyone else when the changes started happening. )

[tld221]

Originally Posted by 33girl

How big was your house, and how many (average) were in your chapter? More to the point - if this isn't divulging too much - how many women did you have wanting to join?

Unfortunately, sometimes NPC & NIC rush becomes about filling the house because the campus culture demands you have a house that holds 70 or however many people.

i hate that im monopolizing on this thread, but i really am interested!!

is it "campus culture" as in expectations (ie. correlation between reputation and how much you filled your house that year) or a need to fill the house because of some university sanctions (ie. if the house isn't full, you lose it?)

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by tld221

i hate that im monopolizing on this thread, but i really am interested!!

You are not monopolizing...I'm interested too.

[lilfrosty119]

you are supposed to give back everything not to be mean but the things that were bought for you were because you were going to be in the organization and now that you arent it isnt fair for you to keep those things. sorry...

[33girl]

Originally Posted by tld221

i hate that im monopolizing on this thread, but i really am interested!!

is it "campus culture" as in expectations (ie. correlation between reputation and how much you filled your house that year) or a need to fill the house because of some university sanctions (ie. if the house isn't full, you lose it?)

Yes and yes. I'm going to opt out at this point as our campus really didn't have those type houses and someone's who did can explain better.

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by tld221

i hate that im monopolizing on this thread, but i really am interested!!

is it "campus culture" as in expectations (ie. correlation between reputation and how much you filled your house that year) or a need to fill the house because of some university sanctions (ie. if the house isn't full, you lose it?)

I think that finance plays a large role when it comes to housing. I recently met some ASA alumnae from a different chapter who told me that because their chapter didn't have live in requirements for members, it made their dues really high because they had to cover the cost of the unused rooms.

[SoEnchanting]

Sorry if this has been stated before, but I didn't read all five pages of posts...

I am having a hard time understanding why someone who is not a member has sorority stuff in the first place??? Perhaps this is something special to NPC-organizations?

To answer your question, give everything back. No matter what the circumstances are, you are not a member. I doubt anyone will sue you or worse if you don't give it back, but it sounds really tacky (at best) for you to keep momentos of something you are not a part of and an experience you did not finish.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by susan314

When I initiated into my NPC group in 1992, we were not permitted to wear letters during our pledge period. We could wear the words spelled out (i.e. - Alpha Gam or Alpha Gamma Delta), but not the Greek letters.

Things changed at some point around the time I was graduating. NPC groups (or at least the decision makers) took the stance that not allowing new members to wear the Greek letters was a form of hazing. This was also around the same time where the term "new member" vs. "pledge" was starting to be implemented. Therefore, in my own chapter and in other groups on our campus, new members were permitted to wear the Greek letters.

At the time, I wasn't terribly fond of the change. (After all, its human nature to resist change!) However, now that I reflect on it with a few more years perspective...the reason I respected my organization and wanted to uphold the standards of membership as a pledge wasn't to earn the opportunity to wear the letters. It was because I respected my sisters, our history (both on an individual chapter level and on the International level), our Purpose. Not being permitted to wear the Greek letters really didn't have much bearing on my actions one way or the other.

I personally found it more meaningful to learn all of the secret meanings of the symbols and letters at initiation, than finally being able to wear a lettered sweatshirt. (Again, this is after 15 years perspective since initiating - as I mentioned, I griped along with everyone else when the changes started happening. )

See we were permitted, but discouraged not to. This was due to chapter tradition. I'll probably have to explain this a little. In my chapter, we have two 'families'. Your big/lil family and your mom/daughter family (since changed to sigma/kappa). You get your big right after pledging in and she's there through the whole pledging process. Our mom/daughter is like everyone else's big/lil in a way. You don't find out who your mom is until I-week. It's your mom who gives you your first letters. So we were told that if we want to go out and buy lettered stuff, go ahead, but it would kind of be wrecking tradition and the surprise on I-week. Naturally none of us went crazy and we all waited.

Actually I was told that I couldn't even use the greek letters in my AIM profile or anything like that. My big was the chapter president and she asked why all our letters were disappearing from our profiles. I told her and she was livid and said if we wanted to use them we could because we were members now.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by tld221

is it "campus culture" as in expectations (ie. correlation between reputation and how much you filled your house that year) or a need to fill the house because of some university sanctions (ie. if the house isn't full, you lose it?)

I'm currently a Chapter Advisor on a campus where the Greek housing is all university owned. Our chapter will not have a house next year, because we would have too many vacancies.

At that campus, chapters who have houses are fined $500 per vacancy. Even with a small number of vacancies, that adds up! (4 empty beds would result in a $2,000 fine!) So, it is definitely in the groups best interests to keep the house full!

BTW - many of the NPHC groups at that campus live in the University-owned Greek housing too.

[pinkyphimu]

Originally Posted by tld221

is it "campus culture" as in expectations (ie. correlation between reputation and how much you filled your house that year) or a need to fill the house because of some university sanctions (ie. if the house isn't full, you lose it?)

if the house is university owned, they may have specific sanctions. if the house isn't full, they may take it away and turn it in to another "special interest" type house. on my campus, they could put a non member in the house if there was an empty room. our chapter houses were much smaller compared to many schools where the chapters own their own homes. if i remember correctly, the most any of the sorority houses held was 20. my house only held 5.

if the house is owned by the organization, there are financial considerations that need to be made. if there are 150 beds and only 70 people live there for several years in a row, the chapter can only afford to take a loss for so long before they decide it is no longer fiancially viable.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by 33girl

How big was your house, and how many (average) were in your chapter? More to the point - if this isn't divulging too much - how many women did you have wanting to join?

Unfortunately, sometimes NPC & NIC rush becomes about filling the house because the campus culture demands you have a house that holds 70 or however many people.

What you're saying makes sense. I can't really tell you too much detailed information, however - before my time

Our chapter has had two houses on campus. Here is the public information about the second house, from the chapter website (which needs to be updated):

"XI ALPHA, Inc.

XI ALPHA, Inc. is a non-profit organization comprised of current and alumni members of the Xi Alpha Chapter of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. who came together in an unified effort to secure a facility, in the heart of Greek Row, on the campus of Georgia Tech. This effort began in the spring of 1998 when the ladies of Delta Sigma Theta were informed that they had two years to renovate their existing structure or secure another location. Over the next four years there were several fundraisers, phone campaigns, and heart-felt appeals to the community and alumni members. With the grace of God, on August 7, 2002, XI ALPHA, Inc. purchased a beautiful 10-bedroom house located at 162 Fourth Street. The legacy of the “Delta House” continues to serve the minority community on the campus of Georgia Tech by offering meeting facilities and a student library. XI ALPHA, Inc. will continue to promote the ideals of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. by promoting scholarship and public service through community service and financial scholarships. "

At that time, there were enough members to fill the house. Unfortunately, levels dropped temporarily so that we do not now have the house.

At GT, there are all different sizes and kinds of Greek houses - probably because Greek housing is not owned by the university. Orgs maintain private control over their own space. So that is probably different than at campuses where it is structured so that it is all campus-owned.