Observations

[The Original Ape]

Wazzup Doggy, and the rest of yall.

I feel what you sayin' about the "new wave" greek attitude. I crossed undergrad "in the 80s"; and I see the difference in the way these younguns' think too. That's the way it is if they're made by people without purpose, or if they ain't "made" at all.

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
Wazzup Doggy, and the rest of yall.

I feel what you sayin' about the "new wave" greek attitude. I crossed undergrad "in the 80s"; and I see the difference in the way these younguns' think too. That's the way it is if they're made by people without purpose, or if they ain't "made" at all.

Thanks for the visit OA. Being that we are contemporaries, we share many of the same viewpoints. Recent events continue to reveal the truth in our sentiments.

[Lone Dog]

Interesting topic..... wish I had been around when the bulk of the posting was taking place.
Well, have a seat and get comfortable....I got a lot on my mind:

First I have a question....
Does ANYBODY, ANYBODY AT ALL, know someone who has said, "Yeah, I'm a paper soror/frat."??? I haven't been in the frat for long, just under two years, but I have never heard anyone from any organization admit to it. MIP has been in place for over ten years now, yet there is not one paper frat or soror to be found. YEAH RIGHT! If I struck a cord with you, don't lie about your process...that's one sure way to be thought of as suspect, amongst other things. Bruhs like to call it cat....

Secondly, I pledged at a grad chapter. Now my pledge experience was much different from an undergrad's. I was pledged by people who had wives, kids, bills, and jobs to be concerned about. Their scope of responsibility extended far beyond going to class and spending the rest of their time "making lines." HOWEVER, it wasn't easy. I can promise you that I was "in the process" longer than 98% of folks. I didn't have the advantage of line brothers to sustain me because they all quit, and I was the only one to cross. Blood, sweat, and tears??? I know them very well. But as soon as people hear grad chapter...they think paper. And I am an adamant proponent of the fact that the two are not synomous. (easy bruh...stop venting...)

Lastly, I can't speak for any other org, but as I was always taught, "It's easier to become a bruh, than it is to be a bruh." If you came in paper, you're not home free..... by the definition of hazing, you can't haze a member, only a prosepective. So what are you gonna do once you're in, and the heat gets turned up? If you pledged, you'll know what to do, if not....then you'll learn.

I road-tripped two days after I crossed...a thousand miles away from my chapter, and I went alone......no brand, no financial card...just me and my process..... IT GOT HOT...It was supposed to, I was a neo. BUT at the end of the night, bruhs were buying me drinks at a club and setting me out. LIKE THEY SHOULD! If it were a "weekend-wonder" in my shoes that night????? Five words for ya...the Cardinal Principle of UPLIFT.

The moral of the story is.... if you long to be a real and true member of your organization, then become one. Regardless of how you are brought in, the hardest part isn't the way you came in, but what you do once you're in. And real members of your organization will teach you all you need to know to be a contributing element and build bridges of your own. BUT, it won't be easy.... and it ain't supposed to be. Anything worth having is worth some inconvenience and work. And if you don't agree.... don't come to Omega, nor any other of the orgs in the NPHC, because workers is what we all need, not folks who take the easy route in all they do.

enough of my rambling......
ROOOOOOOO

[suntzu1963]

I am a member of another NPHC fraternity (Iota Phi Theta), but I feel what you said Lone Dog COMPLETELY. We need to continue to educate and be upstanding members of our communities. How can we be when we discredit members of our community who are trying to meet common goals? (that stands for brothers and sisters in all organizations both amongst their own and in relation to their interaction with other organizations)

To all viewers: Stand with pride and honor your founders in a manner befitting your organization.

And Lone Dog, men of Iota echo your statement with our own.....

"It takes a few weeks to pledge, but it takes a lifetime to be a brother"

That phrase is heard time and time again within the Brotherhood of Iota Phi Theta and it is one of our rallying points. Although it is slightly outdated by the fact that Iota Phi Theta has moved away from "pledging" to a "Brotherhood Intake Process", the spirit is still the same. Quite simply, the process you undergo before becoming a Brother is secondary to the responsibility you accept once you become a Brother.

*taken from the Iota Phi Theta National Website*


Much luv and God bless Lone Dog, Omega Psi Phi, and all GLO's doing something positive for their communities, their members, and most importantly our Heavenly Father.

[the411]

Originally posted by Lone Dog
...don't lie about your process...that's one sure way to be thought of as suspect, amongst other things. Bruhs like to call it cat....

I am really feeling you, Frat! There are so many people who let their insecurity get the best of them and, as a result, feel the need to pretend to have undergone a difficult pledgeship. The outcome of this perpetration is ALWAYS negative for the pretenders. Fact is, if you didn't pledge, there's NO WAY you can pretend to have done so! What would you even know to pretend about? I say be true to yourself and prove yourself through the fruits of your labor as a member of the org.

Originally posted by Lone Dog I was pledged by people who had wives, kids, bills, and jobs to be concerned about... HOWEVER, it wasn't easy....

Bruh, let me tell 'ya--from what I know, pledging Omega grad ain't even close to a cake-walk! Contrary to the popular notion--that it's easy to go grad--it's quite often those older (ultra-old-skool) Sorors/Frat who bring the loudest thunder! TRUST! They are the ones who pledged when pledging was a year-long, above ground, legal process! While they understand the rationale behind MIP, most are still advocates of traditional pledging and they know exactly what strategies to use to play and win the game, thus providing in-coming members with a process with which they will be PROUD and TIGHT and TRUE.

Originally posted by Lone Dog And real members of your organization will teach you all you need to know to be a contributing element and build bridges of your own. BUT, it won't be easy.... and it ain't supposed to be. Anything worth having is worth some inconvenience and work. And if you don't agree.... don't come to Omega,

As for members teaching you what you need to know... well, unfortunately, there are some neos who don't seem to wanna to learn! I have pulled aside some MIP neos who told me straight up, "I got my letters now, so I don't care." I knew a "duly initiated member of DST" who didn't even know who I was talking about when I said Frank Coleman. When I tried to check her, she just said "Whatever!" and walked away. I know greeks who are clueless as to what Invictus is and who have to desire to learn about it. What do we do about these folks?

You've touched on a major problem. There are SO FEW prospects who value the HARD way and SO MANY who want letters handed to them on a Gerber baby platter! That's where the REAL separation is! It's not about old skool vs. MIP, because we all know that s**t still goes on. The thing is, we're getting more and more folks who don't want to earn and work for their membership! What happens when you have a line of 10 and 3 are committed to EARNING their letters, but the other 7 are willing to scream "I was hazed" if a member so much as looks at 'em in an intimidating manner? I'll tell ya what happens-- you end up with a split line! That's not what brotherhood/sisterhood is aboue, which is why many orgs have so much drama to contend with. I must say that Omega is perhaps THE BEST example of family-hood in the Divine Nine, because, for the most part, fellas don't even step to the Bruhs without the expectation that Blood, Sweat, and Tears are required! The few who walk in expecting some Camp Snoopy activities usually just drop out and keep their mouths shut. Yes, there are exceptions--every org has someone who couldn't cut it, and instead of bowing out gracefully (or like a man), they run and tell and everything falls apart for everyone. Why ruin someone else's chances just because YOU can't stand the heat? Why get a chapter suspended just because YOU can't be apart of it? Personally, I have more respect for people who quit, but stay silent than I do for the quitters who squeal.

It's all just so crazy!

And I'm Out!

[Jody]

To the men of Omega, as I said to you my last week of PLEDGING, Good Evening most noble Greeks. As I approach 20 years of having 20 pearls I marvel about the changes in greekdom that have occured. One of the things I find most interesting is the fact an issue that I feel is most appropriately discussed within the confines of our respective organizations is held in an open forum. How can anyone who is not a member have an opinion about a process, that quite frankly, is none of their business. To my fellow Greeks, is the best way for a discussion regarding an issue that is near and dear to OUR HEARTS?

Just the thought of an almost old school AKA.

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by Jody
To the men of Omega, as I said to you my last week of PLEDGING, Good Evening most noble Greeks. As I approach 20 years of having 20 pearls I marvel about the changes in greekdom that have occured. One of the things I find most interesting is the fact an issue that I feel is most appropriately discussed within the confines of our respective organizations is held in an open forum. How can anyone who is not a member have an opinion about a process, that quite frankly, is none of their business. To my fellow Greeks, is the best way for a discussion regarding an issue that is near and dear to OUR HEARTS?

Just the thought of an almost old school AKA.

Jody, the difference is that people, GDIs got to see you pledge. Outsiders saw you walk in line, greet in public, dress alike, and they knew who was on line before the probate. There was no mystery, no shroud of secrecy about the process. Everyone knew what went on. Now, its anybodies guess as to what goes on and that is what causes problems. The confusion is within everyone. I do agree that non-greeks should not have an opinion on what does or does not constitute a "process", but an exchange of thoughts and ideas never hurt anyone. Personally, I don't care who is looking, I will always extol the virtues of my process (without revealing too much of course).

BTW, I have seen old school AKAs pledge. According to todays rules, Coretta Scott King could be brought up on hazing charges. I have seen Ivies marching in line, dressed in green tams and tan trench coats greet her in public, in unison, in front of an auditorium of 5000 people and then made to serenade her. Of course this was done in the 80's and was not considered hazing. See the confusion?

[the411]

Originally posted by Jody
One of the things I find most interesting is the fact an issue that I feel is most appropriately discussed within the confines of our respective organizations is held in an open forum. How can anyone who is not a member have an opinion about a process, that quite frankly, is none of their business.

I feel where you're coming from, but I've gotta agree with my Bruh. I think it behooves GDIs to know what the conflict is. No one is divulging any details about their org's MIP, but rather, discussing the ISSUES that have derived from its implementation. Since we can't change the process, we are forced to just work with it or around it. Personally, I think people who are considering membership NEED to be aware of OUR feelings about MIP. I've found that people who aren't reading/hearing these discussions are pursuing membership with some highly unrealistic notions; as a result, they end up in 1 of 2 categories:

1. Their PRE-crossing experiences are shocking and traumatic (if they PLEDGED UG), leading to squealing, law suits, suspensions, negative publicity, etc...

OR

2. Their POST-crossing experiences are disappointing and/or maddening (if they only did MIP), resulting in shame, ignorance, split lines, ostracization, chapter type-casting, etc...

Fact is, everyone NEEDS to know what they might be getting into. No, we SHOULDN'T reveal classified info to non-members. But, unfortunately, the issue of PLEDGING vs MIP has been public knowledge for quite a while. Just look at the newspapers and the websites. At least we're discussing it from a member's personal perspective, rather than from the (usually biased) perspective of a journalist or offical who isn't in a BGLO at all.

And I'm Out.

[The Original Ape]

411, you hit the nail on the head. And so did e'rbody else. That's what I meant when I said "new wave ...". Most college students today are spoiled and want immediate gratification. They want it now; and they want it easy. Hell many of 'em wont even investigate the organizations to make sure they're trying to get into the one best for them. They just want to be down. And community service? They aint tryin' to hear that-let alone do it.

I think all of the orgs will pay a heavy price for the new way they're admitting new members. Alot of the college students(and some graduate people too) today WANT to be pledged; and will creep somewhere to get it done. Because of this, some of us that did it "back den" need to go back and give 'em a way to do it, with purpose and direction. Otherwise I think the orgs will begin to die.

[the411]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
Most college students today are spoiled and want immediate gratification. They want it now; and they want it easy.

SAD but TRUE. However, it eventually backfires on 'em. When they're partyin' & roadtrippin' and they either "can't hang" or they ask questions that only a PLEDGEE would know the answer to, it becomes obvious that they wear skates and meow. And, while many greeks who pledged may never say/do anything to make them feel uncomfortable or insecure, I assure you that those negative feelings will be in them anyway. When they're at a probate and the pledgees are reciting something that all PLEDGEES are expected to know when they're on line, they will feel like "Boo-Boo the Fool" when erry'body else starts reciting it along with 'em 'cuz they STILL remember it from when they pledged! And believe you me, I'm one of those folks who notices when someone is CLUELESS and ain't sayin' a word or don't even know the words to some of the most basic, universal chants out there.

On the up-side of that, I admire sorors who step to me and say, "Look, this is what my process was like, so I don't know about X, Y, or Z. Can you teach/tell me?" And like Original Ape said, there are people who want to PLEDGE and earn their letters. But of course, serious issues emerge when only 1 or 2 folks on a line fall into the latter category. When everyone else is itching to scream "HAZING!" if they get plucked with a rubberband, then there's gonna be a Split Line--and that's the total ANTITHESIS of what Brotherhood & Sisterhood represent. Nobody should want/prefer that in their chapter, I don't care what org you're in! That makes us all--the alleged elite-- look absolutely HORRIBLE. The drama and mess that results from this whole issue reflects very negatively on the entire black greek system AND on the black community as a whole. At this rate, we won't last.

Let me shut up. I'm getting way too emotional over this.

[Jody]

DoggyStyle, Soror Coretta never came to my university when I was on line but I pledged in the fall (during homecoming) so I know full well about serenading Sorors!

Geez, this is hard BUT, as members of the Divine Nine, I know we'll think of something and then complete our task.

[Lone Dog]

It's good that we're having this dialogue ya'll because the topic needs to be discussed throughout the NPHC. Not just the pledge process, or intake, or whatever the hell you want to call it, but also the how people behave once they get in the org. I'll be the first to tell you that I don't care how you came in. If you came in 1960 and got your ass whipped and publicly humiliated...cool, let's talk. If you came in 2002 after a weekend history lesson...ok, fine, let's talk. BUT the million dollar question (to paraphrase Janet Jackson) : WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE LATELY??? Bruh, are you financial?? Bruh, did you vote at districts and the 'Clave?? Bruh, what have you done in the community??? Bruh, do you know the frat's mandated programs?? Do you contribute to their accomplishment?? BRUH! Are you living your Cardinal Principles???

Let's be real folks....the reason some, scratch that, ALL of our orgs have the potential to be non-existant in the next few decades is not because of hazing...it's not because of how you were brought in (because there are both MIP and old school who are inactive )... It's because members are not living up to the principles and ideals that their org was founded on ... plain and simple. If greeks did that, then all these other problems wouldn't exist, or would have an insignificant effect.

The principles are NOT a goal. I'll say that again... the founding principles (and ideals) are NOT goals. They are a WAY OF LIFE. For example, if you run into a Que, he will tell you that he UPHELD the Cardinals to get into the frat. But is he UPHOLDING them? That's two different questions. And every org has members like that. Yeah, you believe in scholarship, you were in college when you pledged, or had your degree and went grad. But scholarship is not a goal...it is a way of life. So are you pursuing another degree or certificate? Are you reading books? Are you tutoring students? Are you contribuitng to scholarship funds, either monetarily or by giving your time for a fundraiser? etc., etc., etc.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR THE ORG LATELY? Besides, bring a lawsuit? Besides not paying dues? Besides not living up to principles? Besides not presenting a positive role model to the public? (don't get me wrong...BE OWT! but..in Ecclesiates, Solomon says there is a time and place for everything.) I mean, I know every org has a song where they sing "I'm working hard for XYZ." Ok, so you can sing or hop or step, but do you live the words you're singing??? NO? then you're CAT (these letters stand for something, the bruhs can feel me)

Team, I could go on for another 4 hours, but I'll spare ya'll my ranting. Bottom line is we need to instill in our members, and even prospectives looking to join our org, that they need not be so capricious in their decision to join. It is a lifetime committment. LIFETIME. That word in itself implies that you LIVE it ALL the TIME.
Ok, I'm done.....sh*t is deep

ROOO

[the411]

My aunt pledged PLEDGED DST in '68
and my mom PLEDGED AKA in '72.
When I look at their college yearbooks, I get SO jealous, sad, and sometimes even angry because I hate that things have changed so much. In their days, being a pledgee meant being a member of a 2nd most elite, prestigious club (with the 1st being the frat/sorority itself). The movie, School Daze, doesn't come CLOSE to depicting what that "openness" was like. Passers-by were in awe of the uniformity, discipline, and comraderie of the pledgees, and even more impressed with their ability to handle their business in the classroom and in the community through the organization of their pledge clubs. But now, "candidates" (not pledgees) can't even dress alike, much less serenade publicly! We can't even get our film developed for fear that some nosy Kodak processor will call the cops if they see pics of what looks like hazing!

As a little girl, I longed to experience what my AUNT did with her duckteam--to be decked from head to toe in matching outfits (a different one each day, for whatever weather, and with appropriate accessories) designated by my Big Sisters; to immediately jump in line when I spotted my LSs across the yard after class; to delete the words "I" and "me" completely from my vocabulary; to eat in unison, and carry bricks and goody boxes, etc... All that protocol and pageantry would give me and my LSs a feeling of ONE-NESS that would endure until death. That's what I expected it to be like when I went to college. Imagine my disappoinment...

And I'm Out!

[Lone Dog]

I feel you 411....

I used to love to sit around with my dad (Que '75), and my mother (Delta '73) and listen to them relive their pledging days. I even got to see my dad try to remember a step they used to do on the yard at Shaw University.

We can't even get our film developed for fear that some nosy Kodak processor will call the cops if they see pics of what looks like hazing!

That's trips me out because my dad has pictures of him on the yard in long johns dyed gold with a bedsheet dyed purple wrapped around him, covered in food, standing in the middle of campus all day singing "I Shall Not Moved." Now-a-days, that's your ass...suspension of the chapter and of yourself from the frat. What a shame.

But let's remember, this is a new generation. The kids in college now are two generations removed from struggle. Their biggest challenge now is to drive down the street without getting a ticket for being black. Back then, the general Black public was being fire-hosed down, attacked by police and their dogs, couldn;t even eat in restaurants or use the same toilets. They knew and lived hard times. So to go through adversity during pledging was accepted. Now you have kids who grow up with Nintendo and $100 sneakers. They aren't trying to hear about all that pledging stuff. On top of that, the ones doing the pledging are their peers, who are on a power trip. Those are the ones who bring the lawsuits. I'm telling you folks....don;t be suprised in the next few years if undergrad membership is totally done away with and our orgs become for professionals only.

Part of the answer is to change how we operate to support our clientele and potential people "hired" into the frat/soror. All of our orgs are businesses. Would you work at IBM if they beat your ass in order to get the job? Probably not. I KNOW, I KNOW...it's different. But not to these kids who are interested in our orgs now. After being on the inside for so long, we need to stop and think from their perspective. Because if there are no new members, there is no org. But, I know one thing, if we don't come up with an answer, the "bustas" will....and it will lead to less orgs in the NPHC.
ROOOO

[the411]

Originally posted by Lone Dog
...don't be suprised in the next few years if undergrad membership is totally done away with and our orgs become for professionals only.

Yep! Professionals and Honoraries only.


And I'm Out!