Observations

[DoggyStyle82]

Being new here and having inspected some threads, I am amazed at the dichotomy of opinions expressed by all the Greeks. I am considered "old school" (pledged pre-intake). I see alot of opinions that would have never been expressed in my neophyte days. I also noticed that many of the moderators are either straight intake or made in alumni chapters (not that that is good or bad, it just colors most of the opinions) Although I pledged and was hazed in an undergrad chapter, many years later I am active and financial. I have gotten an education by reading the threads. Man, have times changed. Peace yall.

[dyhardque]

Dawg, what differences do you notice? You hold a valuable opinion. Many are very sensitive about how they crossed, so they can not help but be defensive about certain subjects. Of course, most do not have a choice in the matter. They have to go with the program that is in place.

For the record, I pledged and I am proud of that because it was an organized process. It was led by experienced bruhs that knew what was supposed to be accomplished. They taught and they challenged us. They knew when to police the bruhs and when to let the bruhs wreck. I shed blood, sweat, and tears for Omega and I am still active and productive. And always will be.

And I'm gone
Roof

[DoggyStyle82]

Dawg, that is good to hear about your process. Generally, I was speaking about other orgs. Having had an above ground pledge period and running around on the yard as a Lamp, was tremendous. I think all Greeks are being cheated by MIT. There was never a real vs. fake debate or paper vs pledging. There were skaters, but even they pledged. I don't see how one can be an Omega without being both a Lamp and a Dog. I have met members of each org who have no ideal of what their respective pledgees are called during Hell Week, but then again, there is no such thing. It is just that valuable traditions, history, bonding moments, and the essence of what the org is about is learned during pledging. I am just grateful that I pledged when the process had meaning. I could really write a book on the value of a good pledge program. Todays opinions on pledging are distorted because intake people think that it is about a beatdown and that was never really the case. Its about marching on the yard, greeting big bruhs in public, serenading the Deltas, being dressed alike, social silence, the Lamp Stare, the Dog Grit, not walking on grass, always running, never seen walking or eating in public, the unbreakable chain, six men living, sleeping, and eating together, never separated for six weeks, crossing "real" sands together, a sense of accomplishment and rightful entitlement. Knowing everyone on the yard gives you props because they saw and heard your hardships and know that you did something that they wish that they had the heart to do. Lawsuits were unheard of in the 80's (unless someone was permanently disfigured of killed) You couldn't sue for taking wood or getting your feelings hurt like people do now. Oh well, sorry for the sermon

[dyhardque]

Don't apologize for the truth bruh. It was said very well, and I agree. The pledge program is extremely important. Experiences and lessons that I will have for a lifetime came through my pledgeship, and I will pass it on. Traditions are what are at the core of our strength. It is more than could be put on paper and held by a paperclip. I guess that is why no one understands why we do the things that we do. I fear that we will lose these traditions ( no more dog night, no more turnback). Will we diversify out of existence. I have always thought that nothing could stop Omega but Omega.

Anyway, there aer many bruhs that feel strongly about it. The bruhs that made me, passed it on. And I will do the same.

And I'm gone

[the411]

DoggyStyle82,

You bring up a point I've been screaming to make for a while. I am by no means what you would call "old skool" in that I pledged in '97. I will not disclose information about my process, for obvious reasons. But, here is my POV on pledging:

Like you, I think that the definition of "pledging" has been very distored over the years. To me, it has come to mean "hazing" when the two words are VERY different. Because of the new "interchangability" of the two words, most of the traditions you speak of like:

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
marching on the yard, greeting big bruhs in public, serenading the Deltas, being dressed alike, social silence, the Lamp Stare, the Dog Grit, not walking on grass, always running, never seen walking or eating in public, the unbreakable chain, six men living, sleeping, and eating together, never separated for six weeks, crossing "real" sands together,

...are considered hazing although they are the very things that many greeks reminisce about with starry (and sometimes, teary eyes), and with smiles characteristic of a child remembering happy times and childhood friends. My cousins and I used to LOVE hearing pledge stories told by my mom, aunts, and uncles and their greek friends. I had huge expectations of what I'd go through, so it was quite a shock to find that the only way tradition could be carried on was "underground". Part of the fun for old-skool greeks was the above-yard pagentry of pledging; nowadays pledgees can't even dress alike!

I agree that many, many, many greek chapters have taken things WAY too far. In a public speaking class I did a presentation about hazing. My research findings would make your jaw drop; some of the things pledgees were put through were sickening, life-threatening, and even deadly! But I can't help but feel like the "new" definitation of "pledging" (i.e. hazing) isn't meant to keep these gruesome acts from occuring, but more to protect greek organizations in the face of lawsuits.

What do YOU think?

Coleman Luv!

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by the411:
DoggyStyle82,

What do YOU think?

Coleman Luv!

Hazing has been around since the inception of Greek life. It is unfortunate that the fond recall that your relatives have is missing. The Omega that my son will pledge (hopefully) will not resemble what I knew. My memories are of hard, but not dangerous or life-threatening times. I would be interested in your research. Everyone screams about the dangers and hazards, but do you realize that hundreds of thousands of greeks pledged each year with only one or two noticable incidents (maiming or death). The real threat is lawsuits. I have 4 l.bs who did not make it. Under todays laws, any of them could have sued for 6 figures. Not becaused they got injured, but becaused they were hazed (took wood, dressed alike, ran , did errands) Ever hear one of your National officers tell a pledging story?. I personally know that one of our national officers was one of the most feared hazers in the state, now he toes the party line for fear of lawsuits. All of our respective national officers know that Pledging makes a better bruh/soror, if not member (it obviously did not dissuade them!) but they have to spit that anti-pledging propaganda for the suits. Todays underground pledging is dangerous because it is a bastardized version of the real thing and is not structured properly, nor are the hazers and pledgees physically or psychologically prepared. Therefore, injuries have mounted along with lawsuits and suspensions, split lines, paper vs. real, prospectives worried about getting a "beat down", and this pseudo gang mentality of some chapters. I never seen so many people proud of the fact that they did not pledge to get their membership. I have seen too many one weekend wonders and check writers. Have to stop rambling. Much love Soror.

[the411]

Ditto. You are indeed an educator!
I notice that your e-mail addy isn't posted. I'd be really interested in talking privately. Could you e-mail me?

------------------
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

[Reds695]

Oh my god I totally agree. I'm new to this website, but I have noticed that many take the politically correct stanz. I don't know if it is a part of being found out by saying this is how things were for me or what. I believe in being made right and thats all I'm gonna say. I have found that people want to take the easy route. Hit me on email 411 or DoggieStyle at smcallister@falkeinc.com

I am new to the board but came across your comments about pledging and hazing. Fortunately I come from a chapter that did allow our members to be "pledged".

It was mandatory that members dressed a like, exercised, walked in a straight line, etc. Our advisors informed our pyramid club that there is a pledge process and if they think that there wasn't then they should decline their membership.

I was MADE in '95.

oo-oop!

[DoggyStyle82]

Good to hear that Law & Order. I am exactly that kind of advisor.

[latinkingsp00]

Bruz,

As a Quethousand bruh, fresh off the sands, I am proud to say that my chapter made me right. I have had the pleasure of being made by older bruz who have maintained our beloved traditions in tact. In today's society we do have to be tactful or creative because of those haters, but we have still persevered...

Many are fixated on the physical aspect because it is tangible but that's the easy part and the bruz know what I mean. The comradie, the bonding, the bleeding, sweating for one common goal to enter into OMEGALAND is a blessed feeling. Life is not easy thus...through strife one becomes a stronger man, person, unit, brother.....

There are extreme cases where things happen...but life is not PERFECT!!!!

The important thing is to comprehend that if our ancestors who were slaves persevered and became stonger under far more extreme circumstances....then we need to be continuosly grateful and continue to rise. For those who choose simpler routes oh well....

The value of our fraternity is not in numbers but in men, real men......

Roo Older Bruz!!!!!

[mccoyred]

Hey, hey!! Coleman Luv to all the bruhs (ooooop-roooo) and MAD Delta Luv to all my sorors (ooooo-ooop). Old skool soror in da' house (1986)!!

Frats, I agree. When pledging was outlawed and MIP was instituted, many of the good traditions suffered. I pray we come to a happy medium where a tight bond is formed thru traditons but people do not have to fear for their lives.

I'm out....



------------------
mccoyred

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

[DoggyStyle82]

Latin Kings, good to hear that Dawg. People who have not pledged are only getting about 50% of the experience. My chapter bruhs and I spend more time talking war stories and chapter pledge situations than about any other thing. Bonding is the key. Whats up McCoyRed. C=Luv to you to.

[PositivelyAKA]

Men of Omega Psi Phi i hope you don't mind a pretty and intelligent soror of AKA posting on your board. its good to see all the activity in here. DoggyStlye82 i agree and hear your points. my question to you since you are old school and know what real pledging is like, is what do you suggest perspective members or neos do if their chapter does not provide a pledge process for them? also i am the last one to say that MIP is wonderful cause it ain't, with that said should those who come thru mip be ashamed of their process? its not their fault after all that pledging is illegal now? and lastly if your child decided to join your organization would you see them or appreciate others who see them as paper/not really a member due to something they had no control over. thank you.

[DoggyStyle82]

Positivley AKA, it is good to see someone actually respect an opinion that they differ with and seek dialog rather than argument. If and when my son pledges (my org hopefully), I would hope that he has the opportunity to pledge and not MIP. For other orgs, I cannot speak, but to get the full essence, meaning, and purpose of Omega, one must pledge. The training, bonding, and life skills and lessons learned are integral to the development of the 4 Cardinal Principles. The many young men that you see misrepresenting Omega are victims of a haphazard process. NHPC groups should return to some semblance of their previous pledge process. We can either kill ourselves externally with lawsuits or internally with the divisiveness, paper vs real, suspended chapters, and lack of brotherhood/sisterhood that has resulted from MIP. It is not a prospectives fault. They are the victim. We have way more drama in Greekdom now. No wonder GDIs and the general public think that we are irrelevant (other than stepshows or parties) They see easy membership, lines of 60 to 100, disunity in chapters, bruhs fighting bruhs, sorors disrespecting sorors, Greeks didsrespecting Greeks, young members hating older ones. IT IS NOT ATTRACTIVE!!! These problems were around on a smaller level, but have been excaserbated and magnified by MIP. By the time my son gets to college I doubt if any NPHC org will exist in its undergraduate form.