SMU student found dead at SAE House

[jon1856]

Since we now seem to have two threads that both involve deaths of GLO members using the same drug, perhaps it is time for some information about the drug in question:
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/fentanyl.html

http://www.streetdrugs.org/fentanyl.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl

http://www.samhsa.gov/drugalerts/fentanyl_july06.aspx

http://www.wqow.com/News/index.php?ID=6670

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Reality Check1

It seems to me the Macallan25 believes he knows a great deal about many things, but it is more likely that he knows nothing about everything.

Your flippant attitude about the circumstances surrounding the Stiles death are completely disgusting. What type of real life knowledge do you have anyway? More than likely you aren't working and everything you have gotten in your life is because of the golden spoon that your parents gave to you.

The members of the SAE Fraternity at SMU should feel awful, because their culture contributed to this young man's death. Did they force him to do drugs? No, but don't tell me that they didn't make access to these things easier for the young man?

Macallan-it must be so easy for you to sit there and pop off time after time about everything. Take a look at yourself in the mirror. This whole incident goes in stark contrast to the brotherhood that a fraternity is supposed to represent.

Flippant attitude? Shut your fucking mouth because you have no clue what you are talking about. I called more than a dozen members of that chapter..talked to them, offered my heartfelt sorrows.........I even drove up there and attended the vigil. So you can quit with whatever it is you are trying to do. I knew more info on this situation than anyone on this board did 10 minutes after they discovered the body. Perhaps you should re-read the thread and enlighten yourself, because right now you sound like an ignorant jackass.

Explain to me what my "real life" knowledge has anything to do with this guy dying, or knowing how he died, and under what circumstances. Yes, I come from a very priveleged family.......that doesn't mean that I don't know about the way things work or that I am stuck in some bubble, shut off from the outside world.

Who the fuck are you to accuse the members of SMU SAE of helping the guy gain quick access to blow and fentanyl? Do you know all of them? Have you seen it personally? No, thats right. You're full of shit. Admit it.

I'm sorry that me "popping off" at a couple of members of this site for blatantly disregarding this kids death and turning it into some bash SAE Risk Management lecture thread gets your panties in a wad.

I'm done. Also, you're an idiot.

[Elephant Walk]

Yeah, I was going to say something about how I knew you had talked to plenty of people surrounding the young man already, but I figured it was your place.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Yeah, I was going to say something about how I knew you had talked to plenty of people surrounding the young man already, but I figured it was your place.

I too Brother-I somehow think that the OP(Reality Check1) either crossed threads or crossed posters. Or at least I hope that is what happened.

[LXAMustang]

So I'm not A big GreekChat.com user but stumbled on this thread because I'm bored out of my mind.

I happen to be a LXA at SMU and our house is situated literally 20 paces away from the SAE chapter house.

I just want to weigh in because it seems like everyone who has posted has heard this news from a second or third party source.

I will not comment on the Chapter, I will not comment on Mr. Stiles (apart from the fact that he was a good human being and an all around great guy), and I will not comment on the social scene at SMU.

I am just asking for everyone to stop speculating and pay their respects. This truly has had a tremendous impact on the SMU campus and within Greek Life. I had a huge sinking feeling for quite some time. What pains me even more is that this thread continues and reminds everyone of the tragic event. Also, stop bitching at one another about what happened. It's not worth it.

I have several friends who are SAE's and we, as a chapter, did the best we could to make them feel comfortable. As a house we offered our condolences.

Tom Earp, I don't know who you are or what your chapter is like. All I know is that you are a LXA (LCA if you prefer) and you know better than to lecture. Now is not a time to be (or even seem) imposing.

Please, stop speculating, have some dignity, and just offer your condolences.

thank you.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by LXAMustang

So I'm not A big GreekChat.com user but stumbled on this thread because I'm bored out of my mind.

I happen to be a LXA at SMU and our house is situated literally 20 paces away from the SAE chapter house.

I just want to weigh in because it seems like everyone who has posted has heard this news from a second or third party source.

I will not comment on the Chapter, I will not comment on Mr. Stiles (apart from the fact that he was a good human being and an all around great guy), and I will not comment on the social scene at SMU.

I am just asking for everyone to stop speculating and pay their respects. This truly has had a tremendous impact on the SMU campus and within Greek Life. I had a huge sinking feeling for quite some time. What pains me even more is that this thread continues and reminds everyone of the tragic event. Also, stop bitching at one another about what happened. It's not worth it.

I have several friends who are SAE's and we, as a chapter, did the best we could to make them feel comfortable. As a house we offered our condolences.

Tom Earp, I don't know who you are or what your chapter is like. All I know is that you are a LXA (LCA if you prefer) and you know better than to lecture. Now is not a time to be (or even seem) imposing.

Please, stop speculating, have some dignity, and just offer your condolences.

thank you.

Thank You.

[Reality Check1]

Macallan, pay a mortgage and buy a car with your own money, and maybe I'll pay attention to you.
You know darn well that some bad stuff went down at your frat. I know they feel remorse, but they are also pretty darn nervous about the long term implications. SMU has a reputation for being a Coke Haven and you know what it isn't funny anymore, period.

A young man has died and somebody should pay for this.

[Kevin]

While I think everyone without exception is saddened at the loss of any life so young and promising as this one, part of any such tragedy should involve measures to prevent a repeat tragedy.

That's really what the RM forum is for.

I'd like to see this topic remain respectful towards SAE at SMU. If you're not personally involved, you probably aren't in a position to do much more than speculate as to what happened.

That said, there is a serious nationwide issue of drug abuse occuring within our respective chapters. It's a fine line we have to walk between expecting brothers to fend for themselves, be adults, etc. versus realizing that we're dealing with young men who are prone to make very serious mistakes with their lives. In some respects, we have to be our brothers' keepers.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by Reality Check1

Macallan, pay a mortgage and buy a car with your own money, and maybe I'll pay attention to you.
You know darn well that some bad stuff went down at your frat. I know they feel remorse, but they are also pretty darn nervous about the long term implications. SMU has a reputation for being a Coke Haven and you know what it isn't funny anymore, period.

A young man has died and somebody should pay for this.

Somebody did pay. He did. With his life.

Show some fucking respect. If you were my pledge you would be doing RESPECT pushups until you could hardly use your arms.

[7thSonofOsiris]

It never ceases to amaze me at how, during such a tenuous moment, some of us can seem to forget about what makes the moment so tenuous and fragile to begin with. This moment is not about one guy cussing out another guy. This moment is not about the party life at a southern university, because the issue of drug abuse is pandemic throughout most of America's universities and colleges. It's not about the issue of Risk Management alone, but to some degree, this moment will make every organization and its Headquarters take a strong viable look at its policies and protocols. What we do have is, a family that is due our deepest and most sincere condolences, which must be coupled with our own senses of constraint, remembering to respect the situation enough not to pile on the un-necessary speculations, our self-imposed investigations and our unfounded derivations. We have a fraternal chapter that needs the full scope of our knowledge, in some instances sadly enough, our experiences with similar incidents, and definitely our support, and none of this needs to be weakened by an attitude of empathy, but more importantly, the foundations of what is birthed out of this situation, must strengthened by an attitude of continued education about what led to this incident. We have the responsibility of not putting assunder, by casting dispersions in all directions, the legacy birthed from the life of a young man, that was taken much too soon. We must remember to stand with an air of dignity and honor, as we say goodbye to a fallen brother. Not just a brother in the, "my fraternity brother" sense and usage of the word, but rather, a brother in this journey called life.

Peace,
the 7th Son of Osiris

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Kevin

While I think everyone without exception is saddened at the loss of any life so young and promising as this one, part of any such tragedy should involve measures to prevent a repeat tragedy.

That's really what the RM forum is for.

I'd like to see this topic remain respectful toward SAE at SMU. If you're not personally involved, you probably aren't in a position to do much more than speculate as to what happened.

That said, there is a serious nationwide issue of drug abuse occurring within our respective chapters. It's a fine line we have to walk between expecting brothers to fend for themselves, be adults, etc. versus realizing that we're dealing with young men who are prone to make very serious mistakes with their lives. In some respects, we have to be our brothers' keepers.

Thank you Kevin for both your kind words and thoughts.
As you pointed out, very few if anyone here knows just the who, what, when, where and whys of both the death of Brother Stiles or of Theta Chi's James Echels. In truth, the only ones who do are dead.

Here, all we can do ( IMHO/OPOV ) is think of them, their running mates, their krewe, their Brothers, and their Families and wish them all well.

The only link I will make is really a follow-up to Kevin's comment.
To prefix it, back in the day, my chapter had a drug problem that just about tore the house in two. While the drugs at the time were not of this level, IMHO just a bad. But we as a house got it worked out. There was only one incident that I feel we could and should have have done better with.

That said, any living group, social group, activity group is just a sub-section of society. And we know that there is a National problem with drugs. So the odds are that there will be drugs in GLO's. However we are Brothers and Sisters to each other. We should be watching out for each other because we all have problems and we all can stumble.
Giving a person a hand and getting help as needed is not a bad thing. It is just a shame that all to many times doing that is made out to be the bad thing.

And as posted all to many times here, once something does happen, it gives the chapter, the Greek System, Nationals et al all a black eye.

However one can only wish to some good to came out of this. All to often people see injury and death, in the news, as something foreign. Something that could not happen to anyone that they know or even themselves.
However, once something comes home ( in my case a few car accidents and plane crashes ) one can see it in a far difference light.

One can only hope that in these cases, something good does come out of it.

Off of my soap box.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by 7thSonofOsiris

It never ceases to amaze me at how, during such a tenuous moment, some of us can seem to forget about what makes the moment so tenuous and fragile to begin with. This moment is not about one guy cussing out another guy. This moment is not about the party life at a southern university, because the issue of drug abuse is pandemic throughout most of America's universities and colleges. It's not about the issue of Risk Management alone, but to some degree, this moment will make every organization and its Headquarters take a strong viable look at its policies and protocols. What we do have is, a family that is due our deepest and most sincere condolences, which must be coupled with our own senses of constraint, remembering to respect the situation enough not to pile on the un-necessary speculations, our self-imposed investigations and our unfounded derivations. We have a fraternal chapter that needs the full scope of our knowledge, in some instances sadly enough, our experiences with similar incidents, and definitely our support, and none of this needs to be weakened by an attitude of empathy, but more importantly, the foundations of what is birthed out of this situation, must strengthened by an attitude of continued education about what led to this incident. We have the responsibility of not putting assunder, by casting dispersions in all directions, the legacy birthed from the life of a young man, that was taken much too soon. We must remember to stand with an air of dignity and honor, as we say goodbye to a fallen brother. Not just a brother in the, "my fraternity brother" sense and usage of the word, but rather, a brother in this journey called life.

Peace,
the 7th Son of Osiris

Well said.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Flippant attitude? Shut your fucking mouth because you have no clue what you are talking about. I called more than a dozen members of that chapter..talked to them, offered my heartfelt sorrows.........I even drove up there and attended the vigil. So you can quit with whatever it is you are trying to do. I knew more info on this situation than anyone on this board did 10 minutes after they discovered the body. Perhaps you should re-read the thread and enlighten yourself, because right now you sound like an ignorant jackass.

Explain to me what my "real life" knowledge has anything to do with this guy dying, or knowing how he died, and under what circumstances. Yes, I come from a very priveleged family.......that doesn't mean that I don't know about the way things work or that I am stuck in some bubble, shut off from the outside world.

Who the fuck are you to accuse the members of SMU SAE of helping the guy gain quick access to blow and fentanyl? Do you know all of them? Have you seen it personally? No, thats right. You're full of shit. Admit it.

I'm sorry that me "popping off" at a couple of members of this site for blatantly disregarding this kids death and turning it into some bash SAE Risk Management lecture thread gets your panties in a wad.

I'm done. Also, you're an idiot.

Does this language show any respect?

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Somebody did pay. He did. With his life.

Show some fucking respect. If you were my pledge you would be doing RESPECT pushups until you could hardly use your arms.

Does this show respect?

Respect is earned, not forced.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Reality Check1

Macallan, pay a mortgage and buy a car with your own money, and maybe I'll pay attention to you.
You know darn well that some bad stuff went down at your frat. I know they feel remorse, but they are also pretty darn nervous about the long term implications. SMU has a reputation for being a Coke Haven and you know what it isn't funny anymore, period.

A young man has died and somebody should pay for this.

Reality Check1:
As posted above, the people who knew what happened at the SAE and Theta Chi are both dead.
As for SMU, I know nothing about it or Greek System there. I know what I have read on GC about just how "all GLO's" seem to have a drug issue or problem. Is that true? GLO's are just a sub-section or sub-division of society as a whole. And I think we all know too well about societies drug issues.

Long term? Not in our hands at all. Only good thoughts and wishes to those still with us.

And it is FRATERNITY. Or rather, in this case, Chapter.

Welcome to Greek Chat. You picked a rather interesting thread and section to start posting in.
You may wish to take some time reading up and getting the hang of GC.

BTB-just what is your affiliation?