Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[KSUViolet06]

Right. Folks need to realize that we are not sitting around rubbing our hands together and laughing like Dr. Evil waiting to see how many legacies we can cut.

Depending on the school, it's necessary to cut some. There's no personal dislike of legacies or feelings involved, it's just something that needs to be done in order to give some non-legacies a shot.

[brokengymnast75]

Originally Posted by Zillini

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] To do that you know they have made family sacrifices over the years. Sweetie, Dad is taking you to dance class tonight because Mom has to go to Recruitment and won't be home until about 3am. I'm sorry honey, Mom has to miss your soccer game this weekend because of an out of town sorority conference. What a slap in the face to that dedicated alumna Mom when a Chapter releases her daughter!

I have personally been on the daughter's side. My mom missed my birthday party 4 years in a row, couldn't go to my 5th grade and 8th grade graduation because she was at convention. She would leave for a week, and I had to eat the fast food my dad brought home that made me sick. When we only had one computer, I could rarely play games on it because my mom had to answer emails all the time and write up reports. On road trips, she would be on a conference call the entire time, so I had to sit there quietly with out music or talking. At fancy alumnae parties at our house, I had to take coats and serve food.

I had watched both my cousin and sister become initiated into both my mom's and aunt's sorority.

Long story short, when I rushed last year, I was dropped from my mother's sorority the night before pref. And I did not find a home at any of the sororities at my school.

It hurt. I had just wanted to be apart of a sisterhood like I had seen all the women in my family be apart of.

But it was a tricky situation. If the chapter wasn't for me, then I guess it wasn't for me. Should the chapter be forced to take me because I was a "super legacy"? Absolutely not. I don't know how to word this properly, but I still feel almost like my mom and I deserve something from having my mom's sorority affect my childhood so much through all the service she did. It's just a difficult balance between honoring alumnae's service but still allowing the chapter to choose who they want.

[33girl]

I look at it this way. If I ever have a daughter, I want her to find the kind of sisterhood I found in my chapter of ASA. If that's in ASA - fine. If it's in KKG - fine. If it's in the women's rugby team - fine. If it's in a group of women she meets in her dorm - fine.

I wouldn't want any chapter of my sorority to feel forced to take her just because I was a member - mainly because I know that there are chapters of my sorority that wouldn't have taken me, either.

Maybe this means I'm not devoted enough to my sorority on a national level, but if it does, so be it. Maybe it means I still look at this from a collegian's point of view instead of an alum's, but if it does, so be it.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by Zeta_heart

We are losing way too many women that could contribute to our organizations. I know my sister for one would have, without a doubt, been a loyal and comitted member, who continued to give back after graduation.

I'm sorry to hear of your experience, but by giving legacies a major advantage over non-legacies we're doing the exact same thing, just to a different subset of people. There are many non-legacies that join a group and give back throughout their whole lives! I mean, a legacy has to get its start somewhere, right? I understand you're upset, but this doesn't make sense. A legacy has just a much of a chance of being a useless sister who doesn't contribute anything as any random person with no connections to the group. Or vice versa.

[APhiAnna]

Perhaps one way, which would be controversial for sure, is to eliminate grandmothers from the legacy standings. As of right now I know for the majority of GLOs, although I can't speak for all, legacies are sisters/daughters/granddaughters. I am not saying that the legacy bond shared between a grandmother and granddaughter isn't special, because it is. But perhaps it would be one way to weed down the pool.

Obviously at a school with less legacies the rec form would still come in and the connection would still be acknowledged, just how sometimes cousins and aunts and great-grandmothers are acknowledged by chapters with less legacies. But at those cut-throat SEC schools it might help the burden. Just a thought.

ETA: In cases where, for example, a grandmother is a high-ranking national officer and had no daughters of her own I am sure exceptions would be made. And I do understand it would hurt for a woman who did not have daughters or whose daughters didn't go greek (or joined another GLO) to be denied that bond with the only female in her family who would be in a position to go to her legacy.

[BlueCarnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I look at it this way. If I ever have a daughter, I want her to find the kind of sisterhood I found in my chapter of ASA. If that's in ASA - fine. If it's in KKG - fine. If it's in the women's rugby team - fine. If it's in a group of women she meets in her dorm - fine.

I wouldn't want any chapter of my sorority to feel forced to take her just because I was a member - mainly because I know that there are chapters of my sorority that wouldn't have taken me, either.

Maybe this means I'm not devoted enough to my sorority on a national level, but if it does, so be it. Maybe it means I still look at this from a collegian's point of view instead of an alum's, but if it does, so be it.

It's so hard because I totally see this too. I advise a great chapter, but I doubt I would've joined this chapter or if they would've wanted me. While our sorority has certain "core values" that we adhere to, let's face it, it comes down to the members at the time at each chapter. These are girls that are 18-22 years old, and we can all remember how we were at that age. It's a hard age for everyone, and I wish I had judged everyone on, say, their grades and ability to pay, but we all know we didn't. If I had a daughter, I would want her to find a great sisterhood somewhere too, but if wasn't a fit with my sorority for whatever reason, then it's unfortunate, but it's not a fit. These things happen. I honestly would be more mad if she didn't get in to my alma mater than if she didn't get into my sorority.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

Obviously at a school with less legacies the rec form would still come in and the connection would still be acknowledged, just how sometimes cousins and aunts and great-grandmothers are acknowledged by chapters with less legacies. But at those cut-throat SEC schools it might help the burden. Just a thought.

Maybe we should go the route of letting each chapter choose - and spell out openly - who is and who is not a legacy. For example, if XYZ in Wyoming rarely has any legacies come through, they can say legs are daughters, sisters, granddaughters, nieces, whatever. If XYZ at Ole Miss regularly has 3x the number of legacies come through rush that they can take on bid day, then a legacy is a sister or daughter of a member of that chapter. Period.

I know it isn't the fairest thing, but it might help some hurt feelings if people know right away that if little Zsa Zsa goes to a certain school, her chances will be lessened.

(And yes, I know this is kind of an unspoken rule at some places anyway. I'm proposing the bizarre concept of being straight up and honest about it.)

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by brokengymnast75

I don't know how to word this properly, but I still feel almost like my mom and I deserve something from having my mom's sorority affect my childhood so much through all the service she did. It's just a difficult balance between honoring alumnae's service but still allowing the chapter to choose who they want.

I just don't agree with that. I understand it impacted your childhood but it was your moms choice. If she did everything she did as an Alumna with the ultimate hope of it getting you into the same sorority that's not doing the work for the right reason. Just because you're a "super legacy" doesn't mean a chapter who thinks you would not be a good fit should have to take you.

It's a catch 22 for sororities don't take every legacy and risk alienating super involved alumni, or take nothing but legacies and be accused of elitism and a form of nepotism.

[honeychile]

Maybe some sororities wouldn't have a problem with eliminating grandmothers etc, but I guarantee you that Alpha Delta Pi would never do that. In the last couple years, there were legacies who were direct descendents of Founders who were initiated with their anscestors' original Adelphean badge.

I don't think this should be a Panhellenic edict, either. I know that Kappas respect legacies, but trust the chapter to make the final decision; others may do so, too. What I'd like to see is having the NPC ask each of the member organizations to reevaluate their legacy system, and if possible, share it.

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Maybe some sororities wouldn't have a problem with eliminating grandmothers etc, but I guarantee you that Alpha Delta Pi would never do that. In the last couple years, there were legacies who were direct descendents of Founders who were initiated with their anscestors' original Adelphean badge.

I think a direct descendent of a founder would certainly fall under the "special circumstances" mentioned in my original post. Although I feel 33girl had the better idea...let the chapters dictate who is considered a legacy rather than the nationals. I think if a direct descendent of a founder came through our chapter wouldn't even need pressure from nationals to bid them, regardless of legacy policy.

[cbm]

I guess I am in the minority, as I think legacies should get a little extra treatment (i.e. guaranteed parties) to a certain extent before they are cut.

My sorority (not sure if it was our chapter or nationals) was required to invite legacies back to Day 2. If we kept them until Pref, then they were at the top of our list. I worked back office for one rush and I do know that the mother's level of involvement in her local alum chapter or natioanlly had some bearing on whether or not her daughter came back again after Day 2+. (Granddaughters were not considered legacies in my chapter, again I can't remember if this was a national rule or not.) This always seemed to work out well for us, at least from the sorority's side. I also got to hear advisors make numerous courtsey phone calls to the mothers or sisters of legacies who were cut....not fun at all!

I was not a legacy to my house, but I do understand why we gave that little special treatment to daughters and sisters of our sorority sisters. I didn't mind it at all. I just took it as one of the perks of an elitist organization (because that's what a lot consider Greek organizations to be).

I have also heard it said that having a parent or sibling who is Greek, regardless of the affiliation, makes one more desirable, since the parents will know what all is involved with Greek life and there won't be too many surprises, so to speak. I'm not sure if this is the actual case or not, but it does present a good argument.

I've not listed my sorority or school anywhere on this site...not very concerned if this is giving away any secrets.

[SydneyK]

^^ I don't necessarily think you're in the minority: lots of folks think legacies should be given extra consideration. The problem is, the number of legacies is greater than the number of bids available. With strict quota/ceiling guidelines, the math just makes it impossible for every legacy to be bid to her legacy chapter (assuming both parties want the other).

Originally Posted by cbm

I have also heard it said that having a parent or sibling who is Greek, regardless of the affiliation, makes one more desirable, since the parents will know what all is involved with Greek life and there won't be too many surprises, so to speak. I'm not sure if this is the actual case or not, but it does present a good argument.

I have heard similar arguments. And I think those arguments are fair. (There are still arguments to be made, however, that someone whose parents aren't Greek can still prove him/herself an excellent fit for Greek life.)

I would be happy if there ware a general Greek-legacy status on applications. Women going through recruitment would have a place to indicate on her application/registration form whether a family member (sister, mother, father, etc...) was involved in a GLO. There wouldn't be a need to specify the sorority or fraternity. This could cut down the number of PNMs who get cut from XYZ because the XYZs know Patty PNM is an ABC legacy. If Mom (or BioSis, Aunt Jenny, or Grandma) thinks Patty PNM is a super-legacy and should be given extra consideration, then by all means, contact the chapter.

Having said, that, I don't much care for the term "super-legacy". Actually, I don't much care for the concept, either.

ETA: Even though I just put that "general legacy" status out there, I would hate it if the chapters suddenly had to deal with all the heli-moms who undoubtedly believe that their darling is a super-legacy. Probably a bad suggestion looking back, but I'm sure there are some GCers who could tweak it perfectly.

[itb]

Funny how after Fall Rush occurs that these discussions happen.

The whole idea of legacies is a system-wide GREEK problem, it affects both Male and Female GLOs. It is exasperated on the Female GLOs because of the quota system.

To put it bluntly, if there wasn't a quota system, wouldn't all legacies be offered a bid, provided they were of appropriate moral character? After all, I think that the legacies' mother/sister/aunt/grandmother/(and so forth) would understand if little Suzie was of dubious moral character or legal status that she would NOT be offered a bid. The real problem is that the chapters do a POOR job of talking to the family and keeping them informed, when they OUGHT to be forthright. For example, if little Suzie was told BEFORE she would not be offered a legacy bid, I'm sure little Suzie would move on. But the chapter does not always work like that. In truth, they work in secret and keep it secretive. The chapter and the national HAVE to be in communication with their members on their legacies; it's when they are NOT that problems occur.

IMHO, the quota system is broke because it sets artificial limits on what a strong chapter can do and not do. If a chapter has the means to take 60 more than what quota is, they should be allowed to do so, provided that all the little Suzies want to be in that chapter.

The problem for MALE GLOs is they now are thinking that a quota system is needed as well. As a GLO alumni, I think this is flat out foolish. GLOs offer a continuity that should be nutured. But once again, if the chapter simply communicates with the legacy's family, expectations can be set appropriately.

[DGTess]

@itb - no, I don't think all legacies would be offered a bid. Just as each sorority woman is an individual, each rushee is an individual, and some just won't fit. No one should feel obligated to bid or to accept solely due to a rushee's status as a legacy.

Mandatory cuts to an arbitrary number don't help the situation.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by itb

IMHO, the quota system is broke because it sets artificial limits on what a strong chapter can do and not do. If a chapter has the means to take 60 more than what quota is, they should be allowed to do so, provided that all the little Suzies want to be in that chapter.

Originally Posted by DGTess

Mandatory cuts to an arbitrary number don't help the situation.

Once again I ask - would either of you enjoy being in a chapter with 400 members? Seriously?

Would you enjoy having a choice of only 3-4 groups at a campus of 25,000 because only the "strongest" groups have survived?