Sigma Alpha Epsilon Announces Historic Change for membership experience

[badgeguy]

Thanks for that. The sad fact is that none of this will stop merely becuase there is no more "pledging".

The fact that these events keep happening over and over again is a societal problem, that stems from the early years on up.... As I've said, hazing is a learned trait....

I've done a ton of historical research into fraternities dating back to the 1700s and there are always going to be problems with fraternities in the eyes of the general public, from those that aren't in the system who understand the greater good that can come from organizations like ours.

The real thing to do would not to eliminate pledging to end hazing, but start a nationwide community service where each fraternity and sorority goes into the high schools of our nation and teach them the negatives of what can happen if they continue with these learned traits, and also show them the good that can come from being in a fraternity or sorority.

Greek letter societies should be foremost about FRIENDSHIPS and the rest will work themselves out. Teaching our youth the true values of what Greek letter orgs stand for should be the priority...

[OneHeartOneWay]

a slight hijack from the hazing conversation, back to the logistical one:

(and obviously if this is treading too close to private member information, no worries): What is SAE's process for proposing bylaws changes at convention? Meaning, I'm sure every organization has some process by which any members in good standing, in the deemed appropriate number, can propose changes to be voted on by the membership at Convention. Has that deadline passed? Or do you anticipate there will be a vote brought forth at Convention 2015 to repeal this decision?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by OneHeartOneWay

a slight hijack from the hazing conversation, back to the logistical one:

(and obviously if this is treading too close to private member information, no worries): What is SAE's process for proposing bylaws changes at convention? Meaning, I'm sure every organization has some process by which any members in good standing, in the deemed appropriate number, can propose changes to be voted on by the membership at Convention. Has that deadline passed? Or do you anticipate there will be a vote brought forth at Convention 2015 to repeal this decision?

The conventions are in summer, so less than 40% of the time from the last convention to the next has taken place. Having the limit on new bylaws already pass seems prohibitive.

On another topic, according to http://www.saesd.org/images/document...er_2013_07.pdf
Since it was known prior to the 2013 convention that Brad Cohen was the only candidate running for Supreme Archon and he lived in Newport Beach, that this mean that the 2015 convention *must* be held in Newport Beach. Is this correct that the convention is held in the city that the current Supreme Archon lives in? And if so, what if someone lives in an area of the country where there is no place to assemble large enough for the convention representatives (say northern Wyoming)

Alpha Phi Omega has gone to the other extreme, the board has basically gone through all of the possible cities looking for hotel or hotel/convention center combinations that are large enough to host (meeting space for 1500, etc) and *only* those cities can be bid, so that for example, the only possible way to have the convention in Virginia would be to have it in the DC Suburbs.

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by naraht

The conventions are in summer, so less than 40% of the time from the last convention to the next has taken place. Having the limit on new bylaws already pass seems prohibitive.

On another topic, according to http://www.saesd.org/images/document...er_2013_07.pdf
Since it was known prior to the 2013 convention that Brad Cohen was the only candidate running for Supreme Archon and he lived in Newport Beach, that this mean that the 2015 convention *must* be held in Newport Beach. Is this correct that the convention is held in the city that the current Supreme Archon lives in? And if so, what if someone lives in an area of the country where there is no place to assemble large enough for the convention representatives (say northern Wyoming)

Alpha Phi Omega has gone to the other extreme, the board has basically gone through all of the possible cities looking for hotel or hotel/convention center combinations that are large enough to host (meeting space for 1500, etc) and *only* those cities can be bid, so that for example, the only possible way to have the convention in Virginia would be to have it in the DC Suburbs.

It "must" be in Newport only because Brad Almighty commands it to be so.

[OneHeartOneWay]

Originally Posted by naraht

The conventions are in summer, so less than 40% of the time from the last convention to the next has taken place. Having the limit on new bylaws already pass seems prohibitive.

yes, yes! When I started typing my question I was thinking Convention was this summer, then realized it was 2015 and didn't think to change that part! Oops!

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by OneHeartOneWay

a slight hijack from the hazing conversation, back to the logistical one:

(and obviously if this is treading too close to private member information, no worries): What is SAE's process for proposing bylaws changes at convention? Meaning, I'm sure every organization has some process by which any members in good standing, in the deemed appropriate number, can propose changes to be voted on by the membership at Convention. Has that deadline passed? Or do you anticipate there will be a vote brought forth at Convention 2015 to repeal this decision?

The deadline for submissions for the 2015 Convention is 15 December 2014. There will definitely be something submitted to that effect, if not already sent in.

[SOM]

Interesting posting from SAE's ESA Cohen: March 9th

"To all those that think the SC is wrong, consider this. Thursday afternoon, we received notification from JP Morgan who handles millions of our dollars informing us they would no longer do business with SAE as a result of all they have seen and read in the past few months. If a business who makes a lot of money off SAE dumps us, who would be next? Universities, Lloyd's of London? I am convinced we are doing the right thing. I'd rather have no pledge programs than no fraternity. Thank you to the thousands who are supporting the Supreme Council and the new True Gentleman Experience. Change is not easy but like we have done in the past, we will get through this better and stronger than before." Given the bad press that JP Morgan has been getting.....hum.

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by SOM

Interesting posting from SAE's ESA Cohen: March 9th

"To all those that think the SC is wrong, consider this. Thursday afternoon, we received notification from JP Morgan who handles millions of our dollars informing us they would no longer do business with SAE as a result of all they have seen and read in the past few months. If a business who makes a lot of money off SAE dumps us, who would be next? Universities, Lloyd's of London? I am convinced we are doing the right thing. I'd rather have no pledge programs than no fraternity. Thank you to the thousands who are supporting the Supreme Council and the new True Gentleman Experience. Change is not easy but like we have done in the past, we will get through this better and stronger than before." Given the bad press that JP Morgan has been getting.....hum.

In other words, the ends justify the means, even when the means violate the Fraternity Laws and disenfranchise hundreds of members of the Fraternity Convention. He could have tried being open and honest about the situation from the beginning. The Eminent Supreme Arrogance of Brad Cohen knows no limits.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SOM

Interesting posting from SAE's ESA Cohen: March 9th

"To all those that think the SC is wrong, consider this. Thursday afternoon, we received notification from JP Morgan who handles millions of our dollars informing us they would no longer do business with SAE as a result of all they have seen and read in the past few months. . . .

JP Morgan Thursday afternoon, announcement Friday to take effect essentially immediately? Maybe I'm making more of it than it is, but that does seem to support my thought in an earlier post that the Supreme Council saw something big on the horizon and tried to act quickly to fend it off. I don't know . . . .

Regardless, I think others are right—the action taken isn't likely to work and it risks significant backlash and harm of a different kind to the fraternity.

SAEalumnus or SOM, I'm just curious: Is there a way to force a mid-term vote by the Convention, such as by petition of a certain percentage of members of the Convention or of chapters, or can a vote like that only called by the Supreme Council on its own initiative? Or are there other options available to bring this up before the 2015 Convention?

[badgeguy]

I guess it's true...money IS the root of all evil!

[Griffins&Quills]

I think that his post is more infuriating. The manner that the program was announced and forced in is one of the main issues, and he also makes it abundantly clear that it's about money and covering their asses. That's not right. That's not what fraternities and sororities are primarily about. And again, ending pledging won't end hazing.

[SOM]

Originally Posted by Griffins&Quills

I think that his post is more infuriating. The manner that the program was announced and forced in is one of the main issues, and he also makes it abundantly clear that it's about money and covering their asses. That's not right. That's not what fraternities and sororities are primarily about. And again, ending pledging won't end hazing.

You may have a bit of a point. However when I first saw it my thought was along the line of cause and effect. The cause: All of the dumb, stupid, dangerous stuff being done "in the name of the Brotherhood/Sisterhood" that is getting onto the front pages. Effect-Well all the push back GLO's are now getting. And we do forget that Schools and GLO's (at a National level) are business. Business do not like issues, problems, bad press. Most of them do what they can to prevent or at the very least reduce those matters from happening. Because bad news, bad press hurts.

And this sort of stuff hurts us all. Hurts the other GLO's on campus, hurts the reputation of the GLO's Nationally, hurts all GLO's on every campus.

[Griffins&Quills]

SOM: I definitely agree. I just think his post makes him sound like an ass, and one that does not have the primary interests of the fraternity and its membership at heart. I agree that hazing is an issue and deaths associated with hazing and stories that end up on the front page harm us all, but I think also that a very high profile group eliminating pledging will potentially harm us all too. I just really don't believe that handing out a bid, and letting someone know ritual, 4 days later, is the answer. I would never want that for my organization.

[SOM]

Originally Posted by Griffins&Quills

SOM: I definitely agree. I just think his post makes him sound like an ass, and one that does not have the primary interests of the fraternity and its membership at heart. I agree that hazing is an issue and deaths associated with hazing and stories that end up on the front page harm us all, but I think also that a very high profile group eliminating pledging will potentially harm us all too. I just really don't believe that handing out a bid, and letting someone know ritual, 4 days later, is the answer. I would never want that for my organization.

We maybe, currently, "high profile" for all the wrong reasons.

I am not all too comfortable with changes, with transitions. However I been though a few. We rushed dry long before many did. We rushed the week before Freshmen Orientation and when that changed we thought Greek Life was over as we knew it. We lost Little Sisters of Minerva from which I got one of my closest, dearest friends and second family. At some point, we lost kegs. And we lost the House, The Charter. And five long years because the people their lost their way. No leadership, no management, no real Brotherhood of the kind we had when I was there. Just a bunch of fools thinking, making believe that they were The Chapter, A Fraternity. My Chapter, My Fraternity.

In my prior post I said that Schools and Nationals are businesses. Well, so are The Chapters. They have budgets. They have costs/expenses. They have income. Some of the income comes from dues, fund raising and if lucky some Alumnus. So they need leadership, management, rules and procedures like any other business.

And if any of those fail, people will take notice. Some of those Alums may not care to be so close, so connected, so giving.

Which may come to be a rather big shock to the undergrads who think they are well heeled, well funded, and so well supported that they are better, smarter than their School and National.

I am not at all too sure how all of this is going to work out, play out.

I know that there will be problems, issues, conflicts as this change rolls out and is implemented. Perhaps modified by cool, understanding heads. That happens to all changes. And yes, the very means can be examined. However, as matters stand right now, we have to make changes. And I hope that all of this does get worked out so we are all in a much better place at the end.

And yes, I did have a brief exchange with Brother Cohen over this. He thanked me.

[SOM]

SAE Fraternity Continues to Grapple with Pledging Ban http://www.brobible.com/college/arti...-pledging-ban/