Diversity in the SEC

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by nyapbp

These were my thoughts and then they popped up on the screeen. Thank you TriDeltaSallie.

It is now; we are here. Debating about what, why, or how people did things in the late 1800s and early 1900s is a moot point. None of us is privy to any of that. We can surmise, we can ascribe, but we just do not know. We can get on with out lives and make the best of the situation in front of us. Wringing our hands about something over which we have no part and no control is, in my opinion, pointless.

No, you are not going to dismiss the discourse as irrelevant. The past shapes the present and the future. Historians (among other disciplines) and laypersons know this and they apply it to many topics (gender inequality, government extremism, etc). It is only in topics of race and ethnicity that many people wish to close doors and silence the past.

Originally Posted by nyapbp

That said, I remember having to counsel a chapter when an African American pledge was catching fire from the NPHC groups for joining an NPC group. As I recall she ended up leaving school. I admire and respect the NPHC groups, but I realize that membership in one of the organizations is closed to me. The choice would never be mine.

None of the doors are officially closed to you. NPHC sororities also place emphasis on alumnae chapters. If you cared enough, and have not become a member at the undergrad level because the undergraduate chapter rejected you for some reason, you could apply at the alumnae level. It may not be successful but that lack of success may or may not be because you are nonBlack. There are members who would respect you as long as you work hard like other aspirants and applicants and as long as you prove that you understand the historical and present day significance of being in a BGLO. Given your "let go of the past" intro to your post, you may not understand this and therefore may not be prepared for BGLO membership.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by nyapbp

Yes, I know there have been a few, Eleanor Roosevelt for one. But the NPHC Alumnae chapters in my area do not have white members in them.

Please do not cite her as the white NPHCer. LOL. Her membership was different.

Those alumnae chapters do not have white members because all whites who attend chapter service events are rejected? All whites who attend membership informationals are rejected? All white applicants are rejected? Please explain.

It is probably that they do not have white (beyond maybe a couple white people) interest in programs and membership. Many BGLOs tend not to recruit and many BGLOs tend to see no overwhelming need to pursue racial and ethnic diversity.

ETA: Delta has a relative small amount of white Sorors around the world. I only recall meeting a couple white Sorors over the years. There was only an issue if the white Sorors tried too hard to "be down." Not every white Soror attempts this but I shall explain. Trying to speak Black English or excessive slang with a "Black accent" does not go over well with some of us. Trying to reference hip hop or songs by Black artists that some of us don't even listen to can also be annoying. Some of us find that annoying because as Blacks many of us do not sit around talking about "Black song and dance" 24/7. Blacks don't all listen to certain songs and dance. And we have a rich history of African diaspora intellectuals and Black intellectuals whose brains spanned beyond dancing, slang, and music. I met one white Soror many years ago who thought she could nonstop speak slang and discuss rap or R&B among Black women with terminal degrees and very successful careers. It was insulting and quite hilarious. That white Soror learned over the years to just relax, be herself, and let her coolness, hard work, and respect for the Sisterhood shape the outcome. She also learned that Blackness includes brains and we know about far more than we are stereotyped as knowing. We are not ignoring that she is a white woman who is our Soror. There is no reason to ignore that. We simply do not use that as a negative.

If SEC wants more diversity, they should think about these types of things.

[carnation]

This is all ridiculous. You aren't going to change most minds here and we aren't going to change yours so discussion seems pointless.

[DrPhil]

Those of you who wish to stop discussing should do so. The rest of us will continue until we are done. Greekchat is funny in that any other SEC thread can go for pages with sometimes no real need to keep going. But mention diversity and race and suddenly SEC threads need to have an official end point and silence announcement in order to make some people's Cheerios float in the almond milk. Eat your Cheerios and drink the leftover almond milk while we discuss.

Plus, discussion is about knowledge and understanding. It is not always about changing minds and agreement. Greekchatters like HartofSEC are curious about some things. HartofSEC can use our discussion as research even if it appears as though (hint ) we are not directly answering HartofSEC's question.

[33girl]

I understand what DrPhil and sigmadiva are saying. We are talking about groups where (in some chapters) there are pages and pages of appropriate wardrobe for rush, behavioral standards, etc. In such a situation where the tiniest things are noticed, it's kind of asinine to say "I don't even notice she's black." What are you, blind? (Maybe you get extra points for pledging a blind girl. And if she was blind AND black - WOW!)

And as far as NPC orgs go, there are some chapters of historically Jewish organizations where a non-Jew would feel very unwelcome, and the national group apparently has no problem with that. That sounds judgy, I don't mean it to, just stating a fact, and that is their right to exercise membership selection however they want to. NPC hasn't kicked them out yet.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Here's another example that left me dumbfounded.

I found an interesting article online about why more middle class AA don't choose to homeschool. It was written by an AA woman who left a very good law job, downsized her home substantially, etc. so she could homeschool her children. She explained a number of cultural reasons within the AA community that impact why AA women are not inclined to homeschool. It was an interesting post and made me realize issues faced by AA homeschoolers that I hadn't considered before. So I shared it on FB with the comment that I found it really interesting.

An AA homeschooling mom was annoyed that I shared the post because it was a judgmental article and what good does it do to introduce race into the topic of homeschooling?

Are you kidding me?

I learn something helpful and share it. Now I'm the bad guy for doing so. But if I met an AA homeschooling mom who was facing these issues and wasn't aware of them, then I'm a privileged white person who doesn't care about the challenges women face in the AA community.

That's just one example of why whites feel damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by carnation

I seriously doubt that any NPC group was founded with an eye to keeping blacks out. I'm betting it never crossed their minds They probably just wanted to be friends.

Except for the part where many NPC groups had explicit WASP clauses not allowing Jews, blacks, etc., right? It never crossed their minds, except when they created those membership standards?

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Could you give me the Cliffs Notes for your "sandbox" post too?

I guess there is also great irony and cliché in your dodge.

It's a serious question -- what should NPC chapters be striving to say or do that wouldn't be considered "cliché?"

If NPC chapters want more women of color, they should be encouraging more women of color to participate in recruitment. There are many, many, many ways this could be done. For example, the local alumnae panhellenics could reach out to high school affinity groups (black students union and so on) to include them in the pre-rush activities. You better believe, at the schools where recs are required, women of color are going to have a MUCH harder time finding them than do white women.

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Here's another example that left me dumbfounded.

An AA homeschooling mom was annoyed that I shared the post because it was a judgmental article and what good does it do to introduce race into the topic of homeschooling?

Are you kidding me?

You should not assume that a single member of a group is authorized to speak for that entire group. That's pretty much the definition of tokenizing.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

You should not assume that a single member of a group is authorized to speak for that entire group. That's pretty much the definition of tokenizing.

And this is where I give up. If you can't see the point I'm making, then there's nothing left to say.

Have a great day!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

And this is where I give up. If you can't see the point I'm making, then there's nothing left to say.

Have a great day!

I get your point. It is SO HARD to be a white woman, and you are going to flounce.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Please do not cite her as the white NPHCer. LOL. Her membership was different.

Those alumnae chapters do not have white members because all whites who attend chapter service events are rejected? All whites who attend membership informationals are rejected? All white applicants are rejected? Please explain.

It is probably that they do not have white (beyond maybe a couple white people) interest in programs and membership. Many BGLOs tend not to recruit and many BGLOs tend to see no overwhelming need to pursue racial and ethnic diversity.

If SEC wants more diversity, they should think about these types of things.

Yes, BGLOs do not have open recruitment. Intake still goes by invitation only, making it much more difficult for first generation or out of state college students or a "friend of a friend" to apply. That does not mean they do not recruit. In my area, BGLO members and alumna start talking to young eligible women about opportunities in college and intake very early. I am not talking about mothers talking to their legacies, but active recruiting of talented high school women. I can appreciate their desire to mentor young women to strive to achieve and pursue graduate and professional programs, but they also actively discourage women from pursuing NPC or MCGLO membership (or D9 membership in groups other than their own).

[DrPhil]

Wow. Just wow.

These discussions are not about tutorials for white people. Not every nonwhite person is going to like what you say and do. No one is obligated to be receptive and welcoming to white people. Racial and ethnic minorities (in general) are accustomed to that. Whites (in general) are not accustomed to that and feel entitled to getting unwarranted smiles and tutorials. Perhaps silently observing would work when all else fails. The need to figuratively shout your presence and flounce is the same race cliche and white privilege all over again.

Going to a Black woman with an article you read tends to only work if you and that person have discussed the topic and have established such a relationship. Otherwise it is the same routine all over again of whites thinking thy are awesome enough to teach and save nonwhites. The same goes for certain men coming to me with an article on women and if I were to go to a LGBT person with an article I read if I don't already have that relationship with the person. My powerful non-LGBT identity can be construed as attempting to teach and save as opposed to simply discussing a topic.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by HQWest

Yes, BGLOs do not have open recruitment. Intake still goes by invitation only, making it much more difficult for first generation or out of state college students or a "friend of a friend" to apply. That does not mean they do not recruit. In my area, BGLO members and alumna start talking to young eligible women about opportunities in college and intake very early. I am not talking about mothers talking to their legacies, but active recruiting of talented high school women. I can appreciate their desire to mentor young women to strive to achieve and pursue graduate and professional programs, but they also actively discourage women from pursuing NPC or MCGLO membership (or D9 membership in groups other than their own).

We do not exist in silence and with no outreach. We reach out to people which is also why we are so visible in the communities. When we say we do not recruit, we are saying that for a reason. That reason includes letting people know the difference between an informational and recruitment; and the difference between individuals and chapters talking to people versus what our official entities encourage. Our official entities do not encourage discouraging people from pursuing other GLOs or pushing people to be aspirants and applicants. Talking to people about our GLOs is not the same as pushing people one way or another. The information and decision must ultimately be up to the person. It has always been the case that some people and chapters do not realize that.

More importantly, your post was responding to a post about a white person who claims to really want to be in an NPHC sorority. Bring it back to the purpose behind my post.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

We do not exist in silence and with no outreach. We reach out to people which is also why we are so visible in the communities. When we say we do not recruit, we are saying that for a reason. That reason includes letting people know the difference between an informational and recruitment; and the difference between individuals and chapters talking to people versus what our official entities encourage. Our official entities do not encourage discouraging people from pursuing other GLOs or pushing people to be aspirants and applicants. Talking to people about our GLOs is not the same as pushing people one way or another. The information and decision must ultimately be up to the person.

More importantly, your post was responding to a post about a white person who claims to really want to be in an NPHC sorority. Bring it back to the purpose behind my post.

I can respond to any point I find within your statement regardless of your intended purpose.

My response was directed to your assertion of what NPC groups (or universities) could do to encourage diversity. I have always admired the D9 and their active participation beyond college, and I feel that it is very important to encourage mentoring of high school students especially those who might not have a parent that went to college. What confuses me is taking that mentoring role to dissuade someone from accepting a scholarship to a non-HBCU or to deride someone who is interested in a MCGLO. As an NPC member, I would not things that are negative about other groups to a PNM as it tends to make the whole system look bad.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by HQWest

I can respond to any point I find within your statement regardless of your intended purpose.

Of course. I was making sure you understood the purpose. Cool.

Originally Posted by HQWest

My response was directed to your assertion of what NPC groups (or universities) could do to encourage diversity.

What was my assertion?

I tend to dislike "encouraging diversity" because humans are lazy and like quick and visible fixes.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

What was my assertion?

I tend to dislike "encouraging diversity" because humans are lazy and like quick and visible fixes.

In your post at 1:04 you ended "If SEC wants more diversity, they should think about these types of things."

I was trying to counter that it can be very difficult to recruit passively, either for an organization or a university. Recruiting actively can seem like pandering.