Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Might I also add that it is well and good for a lily-white caucasian to say they wouldn't mind pulling out their ID to prove that they're an American citizen if asked, but YOU are not the one who will be asked over and over and over again. And if you were, you'd be b*tching like those annoying people at the airport that get randomly screened and start complaining that they "always" get screened.
And this is coming from a lily-white blonde who would never get stopped for suspicion of illegal status.

Serious question: Is Kevlar lily-white? LOL.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Serious question: Is Kevlar lily-white? LOL.

He's not the one that mentioned not minding being stopped. Ghostwriter said that (and having Native American blood isn't the same, btw.) Kevlar just mentioned that people get stopped near borders. (I always thought Kevlar was black.) This has been a common argument used by caucasians since they won't be the ones effected by the law anyway. If I wasn't clear, it was because I was typing too fast. Sorry! The statement was meant as a general statement to any caucasian making that asinine claim.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

He's not the one that mentioned not minding being stopped. Ghostwriter said that (and having Native American blood isn't the same, btw.) Kevlar just mentioned that people get stopped near borders. (I always thought Kevlar was black.) This has been a common argument used by caucasians since they won't be the ones effected by the law anyway. If I wasn't clear, it was because I was typing too fast. Sorry! The statement was meant as a general statement to any caucasian making that asinine claim.

No, I really was curious. LOL. I also thought Kevlar was Black. I didn't know whether Ghostwriter was white, but saw the mention of N.A. I get your point.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, I really was curious. LOL. I also thought Kevlar was Black. I didn't know whether Ghostwriter was white, but saw the mention of N.A. I get your point.

I think you're right. Maybe he'll come back and confirm.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Where does border patrol operate? Do they patrol every street and do illegal immigrant check points throughout the state?

No and No.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And being hispanic isn't a crime. Being a hispanic doesn't make you automatically an illegal immigrant. How can you tell an illegal immigrant from a legal US citizen or a legal immigrant without profiling?

As for Kevlar...it is one thing to be checked near a border, it is completely another to be stopped walking down the street in towns far from a border.

I never said being hispanic was a crime or that hispanic= illegal immigrant.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by agzg

No. CBP is the front line. They are not equivalent to State Police, but local police. But I've already answered that above.

It is not appropriate to equate CBP and ICE in the same breath. ICE has much broader responsibility and powers, and ICE may operate as far away from the borders as they like (they operate in all 50 states, including Hawai'i and Alaska). They often do NOT enforce the same laws, unless you qualify them ALL as "federal law."

CBP only operates in states that have borders. Which is many, but not all.

Edit: Try thinking of it this way: More often then not, CBP officials do not need security clearances. More often than not, ICE officials DO need security clearances. Of course that depends on job duties, so if anyone is thinking of applying for these positions, YMMV. Everyone goes through a thorough background check.

No, CBP is in every state that has an international border crossing, including airports that receive international flights.

BTW, they ALL need security clearances.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Where does border patrol operate? Do they patrol every street and do illegal immigrant check points throughout the state?

Not around here, they only operate within 75 miles of the border. After 9/11, there were checkpoints along two roads near my house. It tied up traffic beyond belief. The joke was, you knew it was up there because traffic was all backed up, so we would just turn into a subdivision and get to another major road to get around it. It was a hassle for a couple months, then it went away. I can't imagine they thought it would be effective when there were so many alternate routes around the checkpoints.

Originally Posted by epchick

It's mandatory now due to the new law....although I don't know how well it is enforced. It used to be that you only needed a passport when you head a certain amount of miles past a major city, but now you need one to cross.

Michigan has enhanced driver's licenses now that can be used as passports within North America, to come back over from Canada, mainly. I know a lot of people who travel back and forth frequently got the enhanced license so they don't have to carry their passport with them all the time. In particular, the boaters like them. It can handle water damage, a passport can't. I never
considered whether these are available in any state or just border states or what.

I can't imagine we'll ever have a huge problem with illegal Canadians coming here. They have it good up there!

[agzg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

BTW, they ALL need security clearances.

Common misconception. CBP employees (especially those who patrol the spaces between points of entry) typically go through a Federal background investigation which can usually be done electronically - it's a more in-depth credit/criminal history check.

ICE and other federal employees that need any level of security clearances have to go through a 3-6 month process of polygraph tests, interviews of their families and friends, psychological testing, etc. Depending on the level, it gets pretty long and arduous. These last between 3 and 5 years and have to be renewed.

The clearance levels range from confidential (typically this is for jobs that deal with a lot of personal information, like financial data) to Top Secret/Secret Compartmentalized Information (usually reserved for national security issues but sometimes not).

CBP employees do not deal with the type of information that would require a security clearance to have. ICE employees do, especially because they've been tasked with aiding the FBI in the monitoring of foreign-born terrorist suspects (This is why I say that ICE and CBP do not really enforce the same laws).

To be 100% honest, many of the CBP agents that I know would probably not be able to get a security clearance beyond confidential for one reason or another. They'd have already been working with ICE if they had. CBP is not exactly the most desireable job in the federal government - it takes a certain kinda someone.

About the airports - that may be true, but CBP (especially the patrol) is less concerned with legitimate points of entry than they are with the spaces between. Generally, the spaces between are land-based. If you get stopped in an airport, it's a Customs and Border Protection agent. If you're getting stopped on land, away from a legitimate point of entry, it's Customs and Border patrol personnel (also part of CBP). Which is who we're talking about in this thread, mostly. My mistake for not clarifying.

[AGDee]

CBP is always hiring IT security specialists.. those folks require a higher clearance than Confidential, but that's true of a lot of IT security jobs, government or not so I think that's related more to the types of information that those positions can access inherently.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by AGDee

CBP is always hiring IT security specialists.. those folks require a higher clearance than Confidential, but that's true of a lot of IT security jobs, government or not so I think that's related more to the types of information that those positions can access inherently.

Right. Also, many of the IT-related jobs within the federal government require security clearances, even the support positions, because you may need to work on the computer of someone who has a security clearance and keeps confidential information on their PC.

Not all, but at least a handful. This is especially true of private companies who contract with the federal government.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I never said being hispanic was a crime or that hispanic= illegal immigrant.

But stopping someone in the middle of the street for no reason other than they look like an illegal immigrant is basically going to accuse a lot of American citizens of being criminals. At least if you check people for status when you arrest them for other crimes, you aren't harassing otherwise law-abiding citizens.

So how do you identify and illegal immigrant by sight? Do they have it tattooed on their face?

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

But stopping someone in the middle of the street for no reason other than they look like an illegal immigrant is basically going to accuse a lot of American citizens of being criminals. At least if you check people for status when you arrest them for other crimes, you aren't harassing otherwise law-abiding citizens.

So how do you identify an illegal immigrant by sight? Do they have it tattooed on their face?

THIS.

Exactly. Might I add the observation that some of the worst crimes in history have been committed by legal residents or those who were in the country legally.

Applying a band-aid to an amputation is not effective. And what we have in AZ is yet another band-aid solution to a problem that's been well covered by publications as diverse as High Country News and the New Yorker.

Sigh. Like I said. This.Makes.Me.Crazy.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Hmm...You just don't want to see the difference. People expect to be checked when they go to a border crossing. It is part of the process. People do not expect to be put through credentials checks on the way to the grocery store or coming home from school. It is not reasonable to say that a RANDOM check near a border is the same as a check in a city on "suspicion for illegal status." Which one is more likely to be based on a discriminatory mind set?

Might I also add that it is well and good for a lily-white caucasian to say they wouldn't mind pulling out their ID to prove that they're an American citizen if asked, but YOU are not the one who will be asked over and over and over again. And if you were, you'd be b*tching like those annoying people at the airport that get randomly screened and start complaining that they "always" get screened.
And this is coming from a lily-white blonde who would never get stopped for suspicion of illegal status.

I'm white, but am asked very frequently if I am Hispanic or part Hispanic. (As far as we know we're Scotch-Irish, but no one's bothered to research family history, so I probably got all the genes from some ancestor who very well might have been Hispanic, but it was past great-great grandparents.) I'm willing to bet I'd get stopped, and I'm certainly more likely to than a "lily-white blonde".

I agree with the concept, I just don't agree with how this is probably going to play out. And I certainly don't carry a birth certificate or ssn card. I feel like if this were done right, it could be productive. But it would be naive to think this isn't going to result in racial profiling. (Or in carding anyone with an accent).

[DrPhil]

Calls for boycott follow Ariz. immigration law

San Francisco officials say they will propose not doing business with state

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36791991...new_york_times