No place for average PNMs?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

To be fair too, what you are hearing from nervous freshmen PNMs is never going to be true. Girls in our own chapters have a hard enough time keeping it straight. If you ask any PNM at any school that suffered even minor cuts, I guarantee you they will tell you that they just went through the most competitive rush that XYZ University has EVER had. EVER. Obviously top tier ABC may have had a very good idea of who they want to pledge, but I guarantee you that, no matter what campus, there are many chapters who are much more open-minded. And really, do you honestly believe that "XYZ who hasn't made quota in 3 years" started the rush process saying "these 100 girls are the only ones we are interested in bidding and if you aren't already in-state and BFF with at least 3 girls then we will cut you?" No. They are going to be open-minded about EVERY PNM, but they are still going to want women that promote their chapter in a positive way so they can grow. So it's probably not that every single recruitment chair at every single chapter had it out for your since Day #1.

Just go give an example, these are reasons why I, my sisters or my friends at other schools/chapters released women that would fall into "good on paper, good picture, etc" categories. If you saw their resume and their Facebook profile you may have been excited about pledging them until they did one of the following:
* Were you a complainer? "OMG, it's soooo hot...", "Haha sorry I'm sooo tired", "Yeah my roommate is kind of weird and lame", "The dorm food is sooo gross"...
* Did you rest on being shy and think that the burden was on the chapters to realize you'd be more outgoing starting three weeks in?
* Did you only bother getting recs for what your friend's sister's boyfriend told you were the three best sororities?
* Were you rude or disinterested to some chapters during the first round because you "so knew" you were going top tier? Top tier may not have wanted you, but would anybody else want a sister who acted bored either?
* Did you wear clothing in a color that made your normally beautiful skin look pasty? Was your dress silhouette more appropriate to 2003 than 2009?
* Did you talk about how much money you have? Nothing can make somebody look poorer than that...
* Did you only ask questions about the chapters GPA and philanthropy and housing points? We wanted a sister to have fun with too.
* Did you mention you are going to get your sororities letters tattooed on your ass? (This REALLY was brought up to somebody I know during recruitment in EVERY chapter the PNM visited).
* Did you bring up God every sentence to an atheist? Did you roll your eyes when a sister mentioned that XYZ also has a Bible study?
* Did some of your more questionable high school nights end up becoming known to sisters or alumni? Or did you even go so far as to leave the topless kegstand photo on Facebook?
* Were you an "eager beaver" who was trying too hard to be bubbly and "hug attacked" every other member you met?

There are SO many reasons why you may have had a bad rush even if you were average looking with a great GPA.

At the end of it though, blaming the sororities for your mistake will hinder you in life. Rush is a great way of seeing how you do in first impressions. These first impressions will affect your first dates, your job interviews, your impression on coworkers/in laws/professors, meeting with your prospective country club/arts guild/book club/PTA/intramural team/church/synagogue/children's friends parents...and maybe even the second/third/fourth time you rush. It would behoove you to not place the blame on others and sit down and analyze why you may have made some mistakes and how you can correct them for the next time first impressions matter.

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

I beg to defer - my daughter was just cut from all houses while rushing at a Big Ten University, she is an out of state student. She was a legacy at KKG, DG, Theta, and AXO...talk about devasting, her sister is currently a "sitting "sister at KKG" and she assumed that she was a shoo-in - she is a pretty (an Elite model), smart (at the University on a full scholarship for being a National Merit Scholar) and has a many hours logged in community service. She was also very familiar with playing the game of looking put together and telling the girls that she was very interested in their house. She did not mention many of her accomplishments, hoping the girls would like her for her personality. With a full slate of legacy recommendations, she was interviewed by all of the executive committee members - who told her that they couldn't wait to see her back the next day, only to cut her. Although she does not drink, she is not "preachy" about what others choose to do. She was looking for an opportunity for community service, leadership, and a place to belong...only to be shut out, I understand that most colleges conduct rush at the start of the school year in the hopes that girls will have a place to belong, but having been through the middle of the school year rush - I think it is a better option - if a girls does not make it in it does not lead the depression and disappointment. She is looking forward to finding a place to make her mark at her school, but it will not be in the greek community...she did not understand how all of the legacies on her dorm floor were asked to pledge and she was not. AphiAnna you obviously do not have any daughters.

First of all, I am sorry for your daughter and the fact that she didn't find her "home". I would encourage her to look into COB opportunities if they are available.

That being said, I don't see how her experience would give you reason to completely disagree with APhiAnna's entire post (or assume that she doesn't have children).

As has been said (to other parents/friends of PNMs), you weren't there with your daughter during recruitment, so you really don't know the reasons why she was cut. Maybe it was because she fell under one of the bulleted points that APhiAnna mentioned, or maybe she just slipped through the cracks. But APhiAnna's post simply said that to blame a poor recruitment outcome on the sororities is the wrong thing to do. The system may be flawed in some ways, but that's not the fault of the individual sororities.

gee I hope her attitude does not prevent my daughter from getting into the Country Club of her choice

[annabella]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

She was also very familiar with playing the game of looking put together and telling the girls that she was very interested in their house.

Girls who try too hard are a huge turn-off.

Also it sounds like you're either a huge B or oblivious to the fact that your daughter is.

[RhoGamma09]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

gee I hope her attitude does not prevent my daughter from getting into the Country Club of her choice

This comment just seems weird to me. Ignoring that and moving on...

I wonder if maybe your daughter was coming off as too snobby or something...whether or not she is, all those legacies and scholarships and blah blah blah honestly can be a huge turn off to people. Yeah, I know its counter-intuitive, but still... those are things you want to see on paper, but when you meet the girl, it can be disastrous if they go about it the wrong way. I know you said she didnt talk about her accomplishments, but this still makes me wonder. If she came through and I met her, I would be wary of a girl touting all that, sometimes it comes off as "Well I am better than you and I know I am getting a bid"

Honestly, I dont have daughters. I am still a Collegiate member of a sorority, I'm not there yet lol. But, I will say, it doesnt matter how many legacies you are, or how "put together" you look, or how good you are at pretending to be interested in an org, a major part of recruitment is luck and chemistry.

You have to make a connection with the girls that are in the room at that moment, it really doesnt matter if youre a legacy, it matters if the girls can see your daughter as a new sister. Every four years, I feel like a sorority can be completely different because of the individual members. If you daughter doesnt click, it might just be because she just didnt get a chance to make a connection.

I know when my daughters go through, I will want really badly for her to get into the sorority of her choice (and I will secretly pray it will be mine ) but I will also try to be understanding and ready for the fact that she might not make it in her first try, or at all. If she doesnt click with the sorority women on her campus, then it just wont be the right thing for her, and it may be hard for me, but its about her college experience.

I am sorry about that kind of heartbreak, its hard to get over, but encourage her to try COB, I am sure if she gets a different method of meeting women, it will be easier. We all (do/and will) build our daughters up, mothers know their daughters better than anyone, but in the end, we just dont know how they really acted that day under all that pressure....sometimes its better for women to do COB because its a different environment.

Best of luck. And remember, its not about "playing a game", its about making friends, life long friends, and they may or may not be in a sorority for your daughter. Letters mean absolutely nothing if you don't sincerely love to be with your sisters.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

I beg to defer - my daughter was just cut from all houses while rushing at a Big Ten University, she is an out of state student. She was a legacy at KKG, DG, Theta, and AXO...talk about devasting, her sister is currently a "sitting "sister at KKG" and she assumed that she was a shoo-in - she is a pretty (an Elite model), smart (at the University on a full scholarship for being a National Merit Scholar) and has a many hours logged in community service.

There's a serious gap in this story. I'd like to know at what point she was cut all the way out. I don't think there's a Big 10 campus that doesn't have at least 1 sorority that is struggling enough to take virtually anyone who meets the criteria. Again (and this is said so many times on GC) was she literally cut from every house? At the University of Iowa, all the houses you mentioned are pretty prestigious. But there are at least 2 or 3 chapters who are struggling. The only way she'd have been cut from my chapter, as a for instance, is if she was unbelievably rude. And out of state would have no impact at a Big 10 school. Out of state is far and away too common at those schools to have an impact. If nothing else, someone from an unusual state would have a benefit from being different and memorable.

If she's at a Big 10 school and got cut out, I'd suggest she look at COB, and accept that she's going into a lower tier house. If she's all that, she'll be able to make an impact on the chapter immediately.

[SWTXBelle]

I have two daughters - does my opinion get to count?

I agree that there is something missing - getting cut from ALL the houses (getting cut; not deciding that some houses simply weren't "worthy" of her attention) is rare.

Unless you were in the room at recruitment, you have only your daughter's word as to how she acted. She knows her perceptions - but not those of the chapters. Yes, she should COB. It may be that she is simply one of those girls who does not do well during formal recruitment.

[DubaiSis]

I hope her daughter can work it out. I think the Greek systems are suffering a bit in the Big 10, so it would be a shame to lose a quality candidate because she didn't fully understand the process or her "tone." But I still think I'd press the daughter to admit she wasn't actually cut from every single chapter and there ARE chapters who might be willing to accept her. Even small houses on these campuses have a lot to offer, and for the umpteenth time, 1 new member class changes the membership by approximately 25%. Join that small house and get your friends to join too. You can be a top tier house within 4 years.

[kddani]

I will find out in 12 days whether I'm going to have a daughter or a son... not sure if I'm "qualified" to make a statement or not.

You're not with your daughter 24-7. You weren't there at recruitment. Kids can act pretty damn different when not in front of their parents. Maybe she was a total biatch. Maybe she was making out with some other girl's boyfriend on top of the bar at XYZ fraternity the day before recruitment started. Or maybe even making out with another girl on top of the bar (yep, seen that one happen, too. What mom would believe her daughter would do that? Very few. But it happens). We don't know. But there could be a very good chance your daughter did something to make herself look bad during or right before recruitment. Or maybe she just didn't stand out at all (probably the more likely choice, but you never kow).

[Zillini]

KKGDGMom, I'm sorry your daughter is hurt and disappointed. I understand why you are feeling the same way for her.

Obviously I was not there but more importantly please keep in mind you were not there either. You do not know how well she did or didn't relate to the actives during the parties, nor do you know what happened during the membership selection meetings. Your daughter may be an amazing young woman, but maybe that didn't shine through. Some possible explanations:

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

-she is an out of state student.

Perhaps nobody knew her very well.

She was a legacy at KKG, DG, Theta, and AXO...talk about devasting, her sister is currently a "sitting "sister at KKG"

By "sitting sister" I assume that means an in house, as in currently active, sister. The other Chapters may have assumed she would go KKG. Fair or not, this is a common assumption with in house sisters. She may have been released because other Chapters thought they had no chance, so why not give that invite to someone who they have a better chance with.

As for why the in house legacy Chapter released her, it happens. Even that is no guarantee. Perhaps your older daughter simply didn't have enough "pull" with the other actives?

I'm also wondering if the older sister invited her to campus to visit last year? This would have given the actives a better chance to get to know her. If she did visit and knew the actives, then perhaps they didn't feel she would fit in.

and she assumed that she was a shoo-in

You can never assume anything. Perhaps she came across as cocky without even realizing it. That can be a real turn off.

she is a pretty (an Elite model), smart (at the University on a full scholarship for being a National Merit Scholar) and has a many hours logged in community service.

I have seen some less competitive Chapters assume because of all these great traits that they have no chance with a PNM. Might as well release her and give that spot to someone who they have a better shot of actually accepting a bid.

She was also very familiar with playing the game of looking put together and telling the girls that she was very interested in their house.

That is quite telling IMO. She viewed it as "playing a game" saying she is interested. Perhaps she did not come across as sincere, at least not sincere enough to overcome some of the other possible issues.

She did not mention many of her accomplishments, hoping the girls would like her for her personality.

Why wouldn't she tell the actives about all the great things she has done and how she could benefit their Chapter? Personality is important, but if a gazillion PNMs have a great personality they will choose those who are the "whole package": great personality, strong resume, strong GPA, etc.

With a full slate of legacy recommendations

Did she have Recs to all the Chapters or just her legacy Chapters?

, she was interviewed by all of the executive committee members

"Interviewed by the Exec Committee"? I'm not sure what that means in a Formal Recruitment setting. Are you saying she was introduced to Exec officers? A lot of Chapters introduce as many PNMs as possible to Exec officers. Again, that is no guarantee of anything.

- who told her that they couldn't wait to see her back the next day, only to cut her.

While saying they want to see her the next day is a Recruitment violation, it too isn't a guarantee. It might have been a honest slip up. It might have been that they truly meant that but it was only the opinion of a few members. A few members can be outvoted by the rest of the Chapter.

Keep in mind, the goal of every Chapter is for every PNM to leave thinking the Chapter loved them. Nobody wants a PNM to feel she is not liked or wanted. Besides as said before, perhaps those actives who recruited her did like her and want her, but there were other PNMs who were liked/wanted more by the whole Chapter. Granted I don't know the membership selection process any other GLO besides my own, but it is safe to say it is a democratic process in that it is a majority decision.

Although she does not drink, she is not "preachy" about what others choose to do.

That's great. Did she convey this to the Chapters? That might have back fired. Talking about alcohol and her opinions is not a good topic during Recruitment no matter what her opinion is.

She was looking for an opportunity for community service, leadership, and a place to belong...only to be shut out

That's great too. However, you stated that she did not talk about her accomplishments. How was the Chapter supposed to know what she has done and what she wants to do if she doesn't tell them? Besides, most PNMs are looking for an opportunity to do all those things as well.

she did not understand how all of the legacies on her dorm floor were asked to pledge and she was not.

You cannot compare one PNMs situation or results to another.

AphiAnna you obviously do not have any daughters.

I don't know that she does or doesn't, do you? Besides, having or not having daughters does not preclude anyone from providing good advice or explanations about Recruitment. The only thing having a daughter can do is provide someone with a better understanding of a parent's pain when their child is in pain. But even those without kids can still relate to that.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by Blondie93

First, my disclaimer. My daughter is not yet in college. Actually, she is only 10 months old. But, despite that, I do have hopes and dreams for her, so I can relate to a mom wanting her "baby girl" to be happy.

hijack -
we need updated pictures of DD.
/hijack

[agzg]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

gee I hope her attitude does not prevent my daughter from getting into the Country Club of her choice

I call troll at this point.

Listen, if you are a real person, I get that you're disappointed. Coming on a website and bitching about it, however, is not the answer. In fact, there's absolutely nothing you can do. Welcome to parenting college students.

IF she indeed was cut from all of the chapters, and is a legacy to so many orgs, I'm assuming right now that she knowingly sabotaged herself.

[Benzgirl]

I'm not a mom, so I'm just asking this question. Moms, Do you ever prepare DD for disappointment?

"DD, even though you are an Elite Model, have a 10.0 on a 4.0 scale and are as sweet as can be, there might be chpaters at University of Wherever that may cut you. I still want you to try your best, and its not always that they don't want you, but the bottom line is that they might want someone more. We don't know if all of the girls that XYZ took were legacies too and were next door neighbors of sitting members.

It may not work out the way we planned it -- recommendations and interviews with the executive counsels -- but this is preparing you for life. You might also not get into Harvard Law School. You might not get that job you want. And, like Elle Woods, you might get dumped by your BF when you think he is proposing. DD, life is full of disappointments and nobody is exempt."

On the issue of knowing how 18 year old girls behave, here is a general observation. I'm at Pref last night, and the PNMs are lined up outside and I look at a room full of our beautiful members wearing their finest dresses -- CHEWING GUM. Time out! "Get rid of your f-ing gum" And, as girls walked in, my guess was 1/3 were also chewing gum.

I also observed many PNMs leaning back in their chairs when talking to the girl that wanted to be paired with them, completely unaware that they body language showed disinterest, even though they might be interested. Ok, they are 18 years old.

Finally, during the crying ceremony, I looked at one PNM sitting in her chair with her elbows on her knees and chin in her hands, obviously completely bored. Note to self, she is 18.

Bottom line, I agree that you haven't any idea what she is doing when she is out of your sight. In fact, you say that she says she doesn't drink. She says!

[texas*princess]

I was wondering when we'd have a psycho mom come on here during recruitment season.

She's a little late into recruitment season, but I guess better late than never

[oncegreek]

With regards to the young lady who was cut at the Big 10 school..... certainly, I feel bad for her, unless it was that "one thing" that got her cut. Or maybe it was the pantyhose with the rhinestones....

[Benzgirl]

[QUOTE=texas*princess;1846417]I was wondering when we'd have a psycho mom come on here during recruitment season.

She's a little late into recruitment season, but I guess better late than never



Oh no, Ole' Miss hasn't yet begun! Prepare for cover. Helimoms are out there lurking.