Infraction stories

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

THIS.

Nowadays, we have skit day, sisterhood day, go Greek day, etc. during recruitment.

I have a really crazy idea.

I would absolutely LOVE for NPC to move toward having Panhellenics include an "Alumnae Life" or "XYZ After college" day into recruitment.

Just as you learn about the house in House Tour Day, or the philanthropy on Philanthropy Day, have a day where you discuss life in XYZ sorority AFTER college.

Have some alumnae from your nearest alumna chapter come talk about their chapter activities, a regional staffer come talk about her experiences, etc.

Just as we showcase our homes, activities, philanthropies, etc. during recruitment, we need to showcase the lifetime commitment that our orgs are.

We have alumnae life included in our NM ed sequence and in the senior sequence of our member ed program, but it would be nice to start out with recruitment so PNMs know before getting involved that it is for life.

what a cool idea.

[Drolefille]

I agree, I think it's an awesome idea!

[angels&angles]

Jumping into the deferred/non-deferred discussion, I have to say that without deferred recruitment, I wouldn't even have CONSIDERED joining until at least sophomore year, which on my campus is a HUGE liability.

For us, the first semester consisted mostly of "rush dates" which consisting of an equal number of sorority women and PNMs getting together and getting coffee, watching TV, etc together. We were encouraged to get to know the PNMs.

There were, of course, a lot of rules and restrictions on this (Neither sorority women nor PNMs could pay for each other, NO alcohol [couldn't even pass the keg tap at a party. Had to put it down and let the PNM pick it up, no playing drinking games together, etc], had to be equal or lesser number of sorority women to PNM, etc), but I found that it really did help me to get to know the women outside of tent talk (although there was a lot of that, too). Without this enforced (well, by the chapters) contact, I would never have rushed, and would have missed out on some great friendships and opportunities.

Of course there were infractions, but the only thing I really remember was that my freshman and sophomore year, this one sorority (who ALWAYS dirty rushed and tried to get around the rules) got so many infractions that they got their door songs taken away. Of course, being who they were, they interpreted "no door songs" to mean "it's okay to bring a boombox and play dance music as the PNMs walk in." Letter but not the spirit of the law. Sigh.

[KSUViolet06]

Good to know that my idea is not crazy. lol.

I'm thinking of pitching it to our NPC Delegate at Convention (or someone who's willing to listen lol)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

lane swerver alert/

Your response reminds me of what some people said in response to the NPHC ban on "pledging" in 1990, which is that something shouldn't be banned just because some people will violate basic guidelines. Instead of banning something altogether, have certain guidelines and educate the pledges and members about what to look out for and the proper channels to take if there's even a hint of a violation.

However, while that makes good darn sense, it doesn't really work that way most of the time and that's why certain rules and bans were implemented in the first place. Our organizations have to protect themselves from what can possibly happen with thousands of members within hundreds of collegiate and alumnae chapters.

/lane swerver alert

Yes, but here's the thing.

As far as comparing Betty Beta promising Rhoda Rushee a bid to why the NPHC got rid of pledging, it really is apples and oranges.

Even with having rush first thing on campus, dirty rushing STILL gets done. Read any of the SEC or Texas threads. The point is that making ridiculous rules (like not talking to any freshmen) and excessive tattling doesn't curtail dirty rushing if the mindset of the campus is "get the best rushees and the most rushees, no matter what the cost."

Not to mention - the penalties for dirty rushing are usually monetary. The biggest and most cutthroat systems/chapters simply set aside money to pay the fines they know they'll incur. People don't lose their chapters or get kicked off Panhel for this, unless drugs or alcohol are involved.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But it's not in a PNM's interest report or ignore dirty rushing. A promised bid for them is a positive.

That's why I'm saying to impress upon them that it's NOT positive - that it's the equivalent of someone trying to scam you by selling you parking passes that are outdated, fake IDs or something of the like. Bid promisers = scammers. The End.

Also, I completely agree with VS's post. Rush was switched from deferred to allowing 1st semester freshmen several years after I left school. The GA's rationale was (I think these were her words) "we want to get them before they know any better." Needless to say, that mindset helped the whole system into the crapper as women who DIDN'T know any better joined in droves (and quit in droves after a year or two).

If what we are offering is as wonderful as we say it is, we need to throw out all the old cliches (it helps you adjust to school, if we don't have it now they'll join other things), give these women a chance to figure out who they are in this new world of theirs, and then welcome them into LIFETIME sisterhood.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That's why I'm saying to impress upon them that it's NOT positive - that it's the equivalent of someone trying to scam you by selling you parking passes that are outdated, fake IDs or something of the like. Bid promisers = scammers. The End.

Also, I completely agree with VS's post. Rush was switched from deferred to allowing 1st semester freshmen several years after I left school. The GA's rationale was (I think these were her words) "we want to get them before they know any better." Needless to say, that mindset helped the whole system into the crapper as women who DIDN'T know any better joined in droves (and quit in droves after a year or two).

If what we are offering is as wonderful as we say it is, we need to throw out all the old cliches (it helps you adjust to school, if we don't have it now they'll join other things), give these women a chance to figure out who they are in this new world of theirs, and then welcome them into LIFETIME sisterhood.

If it's truly bid promising,(presuming a no-silence period rush) and not just lying to someone I'm not sure how it actually IS a scam. Just because you tell PNMs that doesn't mean it's true or that they're going to believe you.

I think revamping how we do formal recruitment would be good, but I don't think that changing silence without some system wide changes would be a change for the better.

[33girl]

One person cannot speak for an entire sorority. Therefore it is a scam. Easy peasy.

Many of these issues would go away if the national groups would take the focus off total and quota and put it onto retention instead. Throw out the award at convention for the chapter that made total for 60 years...start giving one for the chapter that has the lowest percentage of disaffiliated/inactive members in the biennium/triennium.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I wasn't allowed to talk to my biological sister when I went through rush.

DAYUM, that's harsh!

We had strict silence back in the day. No talking to freshmen women, not even to say hello or to explain why we couldn't talk to them. However, we had exception lists. If your younger sister / cousin / BFF was in the incoming freshman class, you would put her on your exception list, and you would then be allowed to talk to her outside rush as long as you didn't talk about sororities or rush. Panhel got the exception lists before rush started, so if anyone went to Panhel whining that they'd seen you talking to Patty PNM outside rush, Panhel would check the list and say "Patty PNM is Suzy Sorority's younger sister and is on her exception list."

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

One person cannot speak for an entire sorority. Therefore it is a scam. Easy peasy.

Many of these issues would go away if the national groups would take the focus off total and quota and put it onto retention instead. Throw out the award at convention for the chapter that made total for 60 years...start giving one for the chapter that has the lowest percentage of disaffiliated/inactive members in the biennium/triennium.

Sorry, I was referring to the hypothetical scenario I described above, where it was actually the sorority essentially creating a bid list and all but handing out bids. If the chapters followed through with it, no PNM will believe it's a scam. Yes currently most bid promising is a lie that can't be backed up and either way it is wrong.


I agree with you about the emphasis on quotas and totals. I understand to some extent the need for numbers on campuses with large houses that must be filled, but there was no reason for that obsession on my campus for example.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yes, but here's the thing.

As far as comparing Betty Beta promising Rhoda Rushee a bid to why the NPHC got rid of pledging, it really is apples and oranges.

Even with having rush first thing on campus, dirty rushing STILL gets done. Read any of the SEC or Texas threads. The point is that making ridiculous rules (like not talking to any freshmen) and excessive tattling doesn't curtail dirty rushing if the mindset of the campus is "get the best rushees and the most rushees, no matter what the cost."

Not to mention - the penalties for dirty rushing are usually monetary. The biggest and most cutthroat systems/chapters simply set aside money to pay the fines they know they'll incur. People don't lose their chapters or get kicked off Panhel for this, unless drugs or alcohol are involved.

Thanks for explaining. I was trying to compare the NPHC ban to the dirty rush rules of the NPC that include but aren't limited to bid promising. Such rules (and bans) exist but that doesn't stop "pledging" and dirty rushing from happening in some chapters. They still exist for what NHQs consider to be a valid reason.

Okay. *taking my apples and oranges and going home*

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

DAYUM, that's harsh!

We had strict silence back in the day. No talking to freshmen women, not even to say hello or to explain why we couldn't talk to them. However, we had exception lists. If your younger sister / cousin / BFF was in the incoming freshman class, you would put her on your exception list, and you would then be allowed to talk to her outside rush as long as you didn't talk about sororities or rush. Panhel got the exception lists before rush started, so if anyone went to Panhel whining that they'd seen you talking to Patty PNM outside rush, Panhel would check the list and say "Patty PNM is Suzy Sorority's younger sister and is on her exception list."

It was really interesting during rush, too, since we had tons of sisters who came through rush every year! They only got to talk to each other during parties. Our Greek Life Adviser was tough!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Thanks for explaining. I was trying to compare the NPHC ban to the dirty rush rules of the NPC that include but aren't limited to bid promising. Such rules (and bans) exist but that doesn't stop "pledging" and dirty rushing from happening in some chapters. They still exist for what NHQs consider to be a valid reason.

Okay. *taking my apples and oranges and going home*

*kicks a stray apple at your back* Hee hee!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

*kicks a stray apple at your back* Hee hee!

Dr. Angel is mean and she hurts people.

On my lonely walk home, I wanna say that KSU's idea is excellent and I hope the GC NPCers push for that charge. *slowly jogging away*

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Dr. Angel is mean and she hurts people.

On my lonely walk home, I wanna say that KSU's idea is excellent and I hope the GC NPCers push for that charge. *slowly jogging away*

My mama always said no one would ever accuse me of being nice.