Pastors and Politics

epchick · #1 09-10-2008, 02:40 PM

Ok, so I heard this on KLOVE today and I thought i'd get GCers opinions on the topic.

I knowt hat the whole idea of "separation of Church and State" was to keep religion out of politics, but I didn't know it meant the reverse as well (keeping politics out of religion).

Ban on Political Endorsements by Pastors

Quote:

CHICAGO -- Declaring that clergy have a constitutional right to endorse political candidates from their pulpits, the socially conservative Alliance Defense Fund is recruiting several dozen pastors to do just that on Sept. 28, in defiance of Internal Revenue Service rules.

The effort by the Arizona-based legal consortium is designed to trigger an IRS investigation that ADF lawyers would then challenge in federal court. The ultimate goal is to persuade the U.S. Supreme Court to throw out a 54-year-old ban on political endorsements by tax-exempt houses of worship.

Do you think that Pastors should be able to mention that "I'm going to vote for Obama" or "I'm going to vote for McCain" from their pulpit (of course without going to the extreme like Rev. Wright)?

I wouldn't mind my pastor casually mentioning that he was gonna vote for Obama or McCain, but I WOULD mind if he said "I'm voting for _____ and you should too because...."

OtterXO · #2 09-10-2008, 02:42 PM

It would bother me if my pastor did that. I think it's somewhat of an abuse of power. But then again, I don't like when celebs do it either. Even Oprah, and I agree with her.

UGAalum94 · #3 09-10-2008, 02:55 PM

Is there really a ban or is it a condition of tax exempt status?

Does that distinction make sense to anyone but me?

A church could always elect to be taxed just like any other entity and make as many endorsement as it chose, right?

Will someone with a really strong understanding of the tax exempt status rules and background weigh in?

epchick · #4 09-10-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Is there really a ban or is it a condition of tax exempt status?

According to the article (and what I heard on KLOVE) its a 54 year old ban (done by the Supreme Court) on political endorsements by tax-exempt houses of worship. If a pastor voiced his "endorsement" of a candidate, his church/synagogue/etc would be in violation of their tax-exempt status and thus be investigated by the IRS.

Quote:

What is different is the Alliance Defense Fund's direct challenge to the rules that govern tax-exempt organizations. Rather than wait for the IRS to investigate an alleged violation, the organization intends to create dozens of violations and take the U.S. government to court on First Amendment grounds.

What I wonder is if there is a difference between saying it from the pulpit or saying it in private. Would a pastor still be in violation if it a private conversation between him and another person?

UGAalum94 · #5 09-10-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epchick

According to the article (and what I heard on KLOVE) its a 54 year old ban (done by the Supreme Court) on political endorsements by tax-exempt houses of worship. If a pastor voiced his "endorsement" of a candidate, his church/synagogue/etc would be in violation of their tax-exempt status and thus be investigated by the IRS.

What I wonder is if there is a difference between saying it from the pulpit or saying it in private. Would a pastor still be in violation if it a private conversation between him and another person?

With the consequence only being they would lose tax exempt status and maybe pay a tax penalty?

I suspect that private individuals making private statements aren't limited but if the pastor spoke as a pastor of the church, the church would be in danger of losing the exemption.

MysticCat · #6 09-10-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Is there really a ban or is it a condition of tax exempt status?

It's the latter.

KSigkid · #7 09-10-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OtterXO

It would bother me if my pastor did that. I think it's somewhat of an abuse of power. But then again, I don't like when celebs do it either. Even Oprah, and I agree with her.

I absolutely agree with every bit of this (except for the agreeing with Oprah part). Specifically for the topic at hand, I wouldn't want my Pastor/Religious Leader talking about politics from the pulpit.

UGAalum94 · #8 09-10-2008, 03:04 PM

Not making an actual endorsement also seems pretty easy anyway. Any pastor who wants to be political can address social issues in such a way as to make a implicit endorsement without probably breaching the tax exempt status rules, right?

What's up with this move really? Firing up the perception of hostility on the part of the government for religion?

It seems like kind of a dumb move right now with more potential backlash than real support.

DGTess · #9 09-10-2008, 05:38 PM

If I could make JUST ONE election law, it would be that a candidate's religious beliefs/attendance/denomination/etc. NOT be mentioned.

AGDee · #10 09-10-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGTess

If I could make JUST ONE election law, it would be that a candidate's religious beliefs/attendance/denomination/etc. NOT be mentioned.

I don't know that I'd agree with that. I certainly would want to know if someone was a follower of David Koresh or the Reverand Sun Myung Moon.. or a Scientologist.

PANTHERTEKE · #11 09-10-2008, 06:45 PM

I don't believe a religious leader should be talking about politics or endorsing certain candidates. This pisses me the f*ck off, and it's mostly Liberal and Democratic "pastors" who do this (just stating the facts).

If I wanted to hear about politics I'd turn on the news, I don't want to hear that from the pulpit. Religious leaders who do this really lose my respect.

VandalSquirrel · #12 09-10-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I don't believe a religious leader should be talking about politics or endorsing certain candidates. This pisses me the f*ck off, and it's mostly Liberal and Democratic "pastors" who do this (just stating the facts).

If I wanted to hear about politics I'd turn on the news, I don't want to hear that from the pulpit. Religious leaders who do this really lose my respect.

A huge part of my faith is social justice, which means we talk politics. We even have a presence in DC and when bills are going through of interest to us, we know about it. However we do not and will not candidate endorse. If my religion stopped having a focus on social justice I'd leave it. My pastor and other community members have a peaceful protest every Friday night where they meet at Friendship Square and some people do bring signs or get into debates over the war, but he is doing it as an individual, not my pastor (though it is a small town and everyone knows he is the pastor of my church).

SWTXBelle · #13 09-10-2008, 09:42 PM

Hmmmm . . .my husband is an Anglican priest AND a political columnist. I will say, however, that his byline doesn't mention his religious work. It's just a case of his wearing two different hats - he also doesn't preach about politics. His sermons are based on the scripture reading for the day.
Anglicans have enough internal politics of their own to fuel the post-service discussions - issues, such as abortion, might be a topic, but not specific candidates.

kstar · #14 09-10-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

it's mostly Liberal and Democratic "pastors" who do this (just stating the facts).

Seriously? Billy Graham, Bob Jones, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson ring a bell?

CrackerBarrel · #15 09-10-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstar

Seriously? Billy Graham, Bob Jones, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson ring a bell?

Billy Graham? Really? You do realize that both of the Clintons have praised him and seen him as a spiritual advisor as have both Bush presidents, don't you?