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[NutBrnHair]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Not to mention that there is more to our colours than honouring Dr. Brown . . .

Did you buy too many vowels?

[SthrnZeta]

I'm not sure how that exact quote offends your org but if it did I apologize. I have always been led to believe that the term sorority meant that the org has a brother fraternity that helped in their founding - I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I would very much like to know if that's completely wrong, partially wrong/right, what have you. If we're all wrong about your history, then correct us. Pretty simple, or so I thought... but I feel like I keep having to repeat myself on this point. Who had the head banging against the wall smilies...??

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

If I'm wrong about your history, then correct me.

Fixed that for ya.

My knowledge of Gamma Phi Beta history is limited to what my Triad Sisters have shared with me on GC. I find it odd that you were led to believe that "sorority" meant the organization is coined as such because they had the help of a man. It's the first I've ever heard of this...and I've been reading GC almost 7 years.

FWIW, Alpha Gamma Delta was also founded at Syracuse years after Gamma Phi Beta Sorority. Dr. Wellesley P. Coddington (A MAN!), a professor of philosophy of psychology, noticed there was a need for a new women's group on campus when the campus population doubled. He helped unite our 11 Founders and served as faculty advisor.

Despite the term "sorority" already being at Syracuse, Alpha Gamma Delta is a Women's Fraternity and has been for 103 years now.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by OTW

Fixed that for ya.
I find it odd that you were led to believe that "sorority" meant the organization is coined as such because they had the help of a man. It's the first I've ever heard of this...and I've been reading GC almost 7 years.
.

That's the gist of what we are told, yes. Almost every ZTA can recite the line about ZTA being founded as a fraternity to distinguish themselves from sororities. Took GC to teach me the correct definition.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

That's the gist of what we are told, yes. Almost every ZTA can recite the line about ZTA being founded as a fraternity to distinguish themselves from sororities. Took GC to teach me the correct definition.

Hey Tippie - since you can discuss things without getting your panties in a wad - is there anyway that you would look up a little more info on that statement for us?? It seems weird that ZTA would have a statement that's so (maybe unintentionaly) insulting to almost half the NPC. I'm thinking there's something about it that we're not understanding. Were there local sororities on the campus when ZTA was founded that were little sister type orgs, and that statement was meant to be campus-spesific, possibly?

[catiebug]

I myself would like to know this, as well.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Hey Tippie - since you can discuss things without getting your panties in a wad - is there anyway that you would look up a little more info on that statement for us?? It seems weird that ZTA would have a statement that's so (maybe unintentionaly) insulting to almost half the NPC. I'm thinking there's something about it that we're not understanding. Were there local sororities on the campus when ZTA was founded that were little sister type orgs, and that statement was meant to be campus-spesific, possibly?

[SthrnZeta]

Kelly, not at all. I was simply stating that your org had a man help in your founding also and that it was unfair to call ZTA out for the same thing. I'm asking for clarification but I'd like it without all the snarking, that's all.

And I know Dr. Brown didn't pick your org's colors, I was a Rho Chi at a school that had your org and we had to study up on all the orgs. I know a little bit of history about 6 chapters cuz of that, so I'm not completely in the dark

[navane]

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

I'm not sure how that exact quote offends your org but if it did I apologize.

The quote comes across as implying that Gamma Phi Beta, which is widely known as being the organization which originated the term "sorority", was "merely" a "little sister type" organization. It further implies that your organization, which elected to be called a fraternity, is somehow "better" than those "other girl groups" and that's why you didn't use the term sorority. I'm not sure how to better explain this. (I also think I need the banging head smilie right now.)

I have always been led to believe that the term sorority meant that the org has a brother fraternity that helped in their founding - I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I would very much like to know if that's completely wrong, partially wrong/right, what have you. If we're all wrong about your history, then correct us.

It is wrong. Very, very wrong.

Kelly, not at all. I was simply stating that your org had a man help in your founding

Please define what you mean when you say "help".

Syracuse University's Chancellor, Dr. E. Haven, who happens to the father of one of Gamma Phi Beta's founders, helped suggest several names, of which Gamma Phi Beta was chosen.

A lot of sororities had someone's brother suggest a badge design or a boyfriend recommend a symbol....but it's not like Gamma Phi Beta had a man pick the name, design a badge, write the ritual and draft the constitution.

also and that it was unfair to call ZTA out for the same thing. I'm asking for clarification but I'd like it without all the snarking, that's all.

I'm sorry that we're all having trouble with this, but it's awkward for Gamma Phis to keep having to correct people.

.....Kelly

[fantASTic]

Kelly, you aren't the only one offended by her comments. Alpha Sigma Tau had NO men involved in our founding in ANY way, and we are not a women's fraternity. To imply that we had a 'brother fraternity' is both insulting and ridiculous; you should know very well that NO NPC has a brother fraternity.

I also find it interesting that you think that honoring any man in any way means that the entire org was designed by a man...or at least that's what you're portraying yourself as thinking.

[SthrnZeta]

I never meant to imply anyone was inferior to anyone. Tippie is right, that's what we're taught as new members and honestly, I'd rather be right and taught by the orgs' members than go on believing stuff that's wrong. The statement that defines ZTA as a fraternity can be found on the national website, as well as several other chapters' websites. Obviously, I don't believe that having a man help in a sisterhood's founding is inferior since ZTA itself had Plummer Jones, et al help us in deciding some very important stuff for us - it's all in our history books. As for the definition of sorority, I can tell you this incorrect definition is still being taught and propogated at colleges today and I agree that it needs to be corrected if women are being taught something that's as blatantly incorrect as it now seems to me.

See? No panty waddage here

[SigKapAngel767]

Thank you for clearing that up, FSUZeta!

[SWTXBelle]

I've never run across a mention of the use of the word "sorority" for auxillary groups while reading about fraternity history - does anyone know of one? My knowledge of fraternity history is hardly comprehensive, so I'd really like to know. I thought little sister groups were more of a 20th century thing - especially since there were so few women attending college at all in the 19th century.

[FSUZeta]

please don't take my comments as verbatim. i was just speculating what those womens organizations affiliated with fraternities in the olden days could have been. i do not know what they actually were, but thought that the nearest thing we might have(or have had) would be little sister groups.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

please don't take my comments as verbatim. i was just speculating what those womens organizations affiliated with fraternities in the olden days could have been. i do not know what they actually were, but thought that the nearest thing we might have(or have had) would be little sister groups.

We're not questioning YOU, we're just questioning in general.

[SthrnZeta]

Thanks FSU for clearing that up - my pledge manual is in a big tupperware tub and I didn't feel like digging through it.

As far as little sister orgs, I know of at least one for sure that was a group of women at UGA (stopped in the late 70s I think) that was a little sister org to DTD there, they even have their own composites in the house. I'm not sure if it's a 20th century thing but I was always under the impression it was much older until I saw those composites in the house (Iris Sisters I think they were called... not sure).

At first I too thought using the word fraternity was odd, but when it was explained to me that a sorority had a men's organization help them get founded it made sense to me and I was always proud of the fact that we were a "womens fraternity. That's not to deman any other group, I just thought the reason was neat. I wholeheartedly agree that we all have wonderful attributes, etc. and I certainly don't think that ZTA is necessarily "better" than any other org (of course I love it above all others, can't be helped!). Obviously I don't know what other meaning the colors for Gamma Phi have besides honoring Dr. Brown, I would assume they hold a special meaning beyond that, just as Zeta's colors do and all other orgs. I appreciate the fact that you all love Gamma Phi as I love ZTA and would stand up for your org so I don't take any of this personally either, but a little more discussion and little less attitude would be nice