A&M

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Besides the lunacy of this statement given the time frame you've used to make it (not to mention the complete 180 it is from A&M fans' attitudes at his hiring), let's talk about this "get us where we should be" thing . . .

Texas A&M's overall winning percentage as a program is .610 (643-413-49) - they went 9-4 last year (.692). They're under .500 overall in bowl games overall, and while they did get pounded this season by Cal, they were matched against a superior program - no shame there, and again no 'history' to live up to.

What "level" exactly should A&M get to? Let's stop this delusional stuff about every team being a "national powerhouse" - A&M is not a traditional national power, and they are not below "where they should be" in any reasonable sense.

Ok, I had a nice long researched reply that I clicked submit too that was lost to stupid internet issues, so here we go.

A&M is one of the top 5 largest universities in the nation, in arguably the most talent rich state in the country, with top notch facilities and fan support, and more Alumni Donation $$ than the University of Texas.

A&M has a stunted history because for the first 90 years of our existence we were an all-men's military school. When Corps membership became voluntary and the school became CoEd in the 70's, we finally began to take our place as one of the two Flagship institutions in the state of Texas. Since the 70's our record vs. Texas has been pretty much equal, indicating that the dominance of Texas over us in the overall record has more to do with us being a school more complimentary to West Point or the Citadel from the 1940's til the 1970's (coincidentally the last glory years of Texas football prior to Mack Brown). We were the better program from the mid-80's til 2000.

In Fran's four years, the Ags are 25-22 overall with a 15-17 conference record. His tenure has seen our first losing season (03) since 1982, our most losses in a season (8) since 1972, our worst ever loss (OU '03), and our worst ever bowl loss (Cotton '05, Tenn). We have never finished a season under Fran ranked in the top 25. Fran, additionally, is 2-10 vs. Tech, OU and Texas.

His predecessor, RC Slocum was 124-47-2 in 14 seasons, with 11 bowl games, 10 seasons ranked in the final top 25 and 3 rankings in the top 10, a 7-7 record vs. UT (which, in my opinion is where we should be, equal), and a Big XII title.

What do I honestly expect year in and year out? To compete as an equal with Texas and Oklahoma for Big XII south titles annually, winning a Big XII title every 3-5 years, finishing with no worse than 3-4 losses with those losses coming from the likes of Texas, OU, or NU and occasionally one out in Lubbock because that place is a black hole of Aggie Athletics. Why do I expect this? Because of the quality of our facilities, the donations of our Alumni and the talent pool that exists in the state of Texas.

Fran went 5-3 in conference last season, with all 3 losses coming at home. To me that is unacceptable. We outplayed all 3 of those teams, Tech, NU, and OU and I personally believe that those losses are attributible to some questionable game planning and play calling from Franchione.

This is his 5th season and when I say that win in Austin may have bought him some time I mean this. That is the first big road win in his tenure. Prior to that we would go on the road and look completely lost (Norman and Lubbock in '03). I expect us now to be competitive and maybe even steal a couple games on the road, which is where we will be a lot this season, with games in Lincoln, Lubbock, Norman and Miami(Fl.). An 0-fer in those games or bad showings will HOPEFULLY signal the end of the Franchione era.

Kitso
KS 361

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AggieSigmaNu361

Ok, I had a nice long researched reply that I clicked submit too that was lost to stupid internet issues, so here we go.

A&M is one of the top 5 largest universities in the nation, in arguably the most talent rich state in the country, with top notch facilities and fan support, and more Alumni Donation $$ than the University of Texas.

A&M has a stunted history because for the first 90 years of our existence we were an all-men's military school. When Corps membership became voluntary and the school became CoEd in the 70's, we finally began to take our place as one of the two Flagship institutions in the state of Texas. Since the 70's our record vs. Texas has been pretty much equal, indicating that the dominance of Texas over us in the overall record has more to do with us being a school more complimentary to West Point or the Citadel from the 1940's til the 1970's (coincidentally the last glory years of Texas football prior to Mack Brown). We were the better program from the mid-80's til 2000.

In Fran's four years, the Ags are 25-22 overall with a 15-17 conference record. His tenure has seen our first losing season (03) since 1982, our most losses in a season (8) since 1972, our worst ever loss (OU '03), and our worst ever bowl loss (Cotton '05, Tenn). We have never finished a season under Fran ranked in the top 25. Fran, additionally, is 2-10 vs. Tech, OU and Texas.

His predecessor, RC Slocum was 124-47-2 in 14 seasons, with 11 bowl games, 10 seasons ranked in the final top 25 and 3 rankings in the top 10, a 7-7 record vs. UT (which, in my opinion is where we should be, equal), and a Big XII title.

What do I honestly expect year in and year out? To compete as an equal with Texas and Oklahoma for Big XII south titles annually, winning a Big XII title every 3-5 years, finishing with no worse than 3-4 losses with those losses coming from the likes of Texas, OU, or NU and occasionally one out in Lubbock because that place is a black hole of Aggie Athletics. Why do I expect this? Because of the quality of our facilities, the donations of our Alumni and the talent pool that exists in the state of Texas.

Fran went 5-3 in conference last season, with all 3 losses coming at home. To me that is unacceptable. We outplayed all 3 of those teams, Tech, NU, and OU and I personally believe that those losses are attributible to some questionable game planning and play calling from Franchione.

This is his 5th season and when I say that win in Austin may have bought him some time I mean this. That is the first big road win in his tenure. Prior to that we would go on the road and look completely lost (Norman and Lubbock in '03). I expect us now to be competitive and maybe even steal a couple games on the road, which is where we will be a lot this season, with games in Lincoln, Lubbock, Norman and Miami(Fl.). An 0-fer in those games or bad showings will HOPEFULLY signal the end of the Franchione era.

Kitso
KS 361

This is well-reasoned, and while I think you're being incredibly short-sighted by comparing the earliest years of the Fran era w/ RC Slocum (it takes time to replace a local legend, get in your own guys/system, etc), I can totally understand what you're saying about success. That's fine, I just think this last season should be what you expect, considering the schedule (I don't think OU and Nebraska are terrible home losses . . . it's not Baylor), and shouldn't be considered "below" the A&M standard. Good post though, well-reasoned.

However, I also want to point out that if you replaced all applicable instances with Michigan State, you wouldn't really be stretching too far to have similarities in your comparison between A&M and UT and the expectations therein . . . (adjusting for relative talent pool, etc)

It's circular, on some level - remember, it's a zero-sum game. Somebody has to lose.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

why are they holding their hands in their laps and bending over in that position?

It's called 'humpin' it'. It is a body position that allows for better vocalization of the yells. A&M does not have cheerleaders, we have Yell Leaders. The Yell Leaders are 3 seniors and 2 juniors from the Corps. It is a big deal to get elected by the student body to be a Yell Leader.

Anyway, during the football games A&M fans do not sit down, we stand. The only time we sit is when the opposing school's band is on the field during half time. So, as we stand the Yell Leaders are down on the field giving out the yells (at some schools this would be the cheers), and as the fans in the stands we 'hump it' when we yell the yell. It is never a problem to figure out which yell is being done because there are different hand signals for each yell.

[FSUZeta]

thank you, sigmadiva.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AggieSigmaNu361

What do I honestly expect year in and year out? To compete as an equal with Texas and Oklahoma for Big XII south titles annually, winning a Big XII title every 3-5 years, finishing with no worse than 3-4 losses with those losses coming from the likes of Texas, OU, or NU and occasionally one out in Lubbock because that place is a black hole of Aggie Athletics. Why do I expect this? Because of the quality of our facilities, the donations of our Alumni and the talent pool that exists in the state of Texas.

1. I'm with KSig.......you can't start comparing Franchione to RC Slocum. Nobody here in Austin even mentioned Mack Brown in the same sentence with Darrell Royal until Mack won a National Championship.......and he had been producing 10 win seasons for a while before that.
2. Home losses to OU and Nebraska shouldn't be unacceptable. Yall didn't outplay OU this year......in fact the stats were almost mirror images of eachother. Stoops was the one that kept that game close for yall with questionable decision making late in the game.

Originally Posted by macallan25

1. I'm with KSig.......you can't start comparing Franchione to RC Slocum. Nobody here in Austin even mentioned Mack Brown in the same sentence with Darrell Royal until Mack won a National Championship.......and he had been producing 10 win seasons for a while before that.
2. Home losses to OU and Nebraska shouldn't be unacceptable. Yall didn't outplay OU this year......in fact the stats were almost mirror images of eachother. Stoops was the one that kept that game close for yall with questionable decision making late in the game.

Its not shocking to me that you want us to keep Fran around. Much for the same reason you saw lots of "Aggies For Mackovic" signs when we were routinely owning y'all in the late 80's and early 90's. And I guarantee if Mack and stepped in and lost 3 straight games to us, he'd have been gone, regardless of what he did against OU.

Say what you want, Fran let OU off the hook with shoddy playcalling. Nebraska as well. Those were disappointing losses where we should have had the game won.

Kitso
KS 361

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AggieSigmaNu361

Say what you want, Fran let OU off the hook with shoddy playcalling. Nebraska as well. Those were disappointing losses where we should have had the game won.

Yeah . . . dunno dude, "shoddy playcalling" sounds like a classic die-hard copout from the stands. Does Fran even do the playcalling? (I honestly don't know)

Did the playcalling allow the other team to score, too? If he throws, does he get saddled with the "bad game/clock management" tag? There's a lot going on here - I'll trust you because you watch the games and follow them closely, and I'm asking in earnest.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Yeah . . . dunno dude, "shoddy playcalling" sounds like a classic die-hard copout from the stands. Does Fran even do the playcalling? (I honestly don't know)

Did the playcalling allow the other team to score, too? If he throws, does he get saddled with the "bad game/clock management" tag? There's a lot going on here - I'll trust you because you watch the games and follow them closely, and I'm asking in earnest.

Ok, this was in the first edition of my post that I couldln't get to post and was left out in the subsequent draft.

Fran is responsible for 75% of the offensive play calling. He has continuely stressed from his own website that he has final veto authority and say on each offensive play call. I'm going into the profession and have spent the last 2 years working with a staff of one of the upper-level DII programs in the country. This is my beef. I understand the need to be mulitiple and be able to present different looks and packages to run the same play. Make the defense prepare for as much different contingencies as possible. But there comes a point when you have to have your fall-back, staple philosophy.

If you had told me going into that game that we would hold OU to 17 total points, I'd have taken it and liked our chances to outscore them. I think in the 4th quarter of the game Fran chose to abandon what had been working for us, running the ball with Goodson and Lane, in an attempt to catch OU off balance. I may just be a different coach, but when it comes to nut-cutting time, I'm going to stick with what's working. If they can't stop the option with McGee and Goodson, I'm going to run it at them. If they can't stop our 275 lb running back Lane, I'm going to pound him. OU didn't score in the 4th quarter. They fumbled once and had 2 3 and outs. We dominated that quarter and settled for 2 FGs. When I've been running the ball with success and get a 1st and GL at the 7 with 7 minutes to go, down by 7, I'm not going to throw 2 incomplete passes. Especially not on 3rd and GL from the 2.

Granted, hindsight is 20/20, but that 4th quarter is a perfect example of how I believe that Fran has a tendency to outthink himself and get too 'cute' instead of saying, "this is what we're doing, prove to us that you can stop it".

Kitso
KS 361

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AggieSigmaNu361

Its not shocking to me that you want us to keep Fran around. Much for the same reason you saw lots of "Aggies For Mackovic" signs when we were routinely owning y'all in the late 80's and early 90's. And I guarantee if Mack and stepped in and lost 3 straight games to us, he'd have been gone, regardless of what he did against OU.

Say what you want, Fran let OU off the hook with shoddy playcalling. Nebraska as well. Those were disappointing losses where we should have had the game won.

Kitso
KS 361

That is a really really piss poor assumption. If we go 11-1 in each of those three regular seasons with our only losses coming to A&M .........you're gonna tell me Mack Brown would get fired?? Don't think so.

Fran let OU off the hook? I realize he calls 75% of the plays.........but that really isn't much different than any head coach that I know of. Mack Brown has the final say in all the plays as well. The was I saw it......both teams ran the ball well, couldn't pass to save their lives, had identical times of posession, and each turned the ball over. You could say Stoops could have given yall the game by not letting Thompson mix in some throws in the first half when OU was running the ball down your throat. Thompson threw like 12 times the whole game and looked like he'd never played QB before. OU also gave you a gift in the second half with those two turnovers that yall couldn't convert into any points. Don't tell me Fran is supposed to score for yall too??

.....Also, I could care less who you have as a head coach. I was merely saying that you can't compare Franchione to RC Slocum at this point. Fran has only been there for a few seasons.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AggieSigmaNu361

If you had told me going into that game that we would hold OU to 17 total points, I'd have taken it and liked our chances to outscore them. I think in the 4th quarter of the game Fran chose to abandon what had been working for us, running the ball with Goodson and Lane, in an attempt to catch OU off balance. I may just be a different coach, but when it comes to nut-cutting time, I'm going to stick with what's working. If they can't stop the option with McGee and Goodson, I'm going to run it at them. If they can't stop our 275 lb running back Lane, I'm going to pound him. OU didn't score in the 4th quarter. They fumbled once and had 2 3 and outs. We dominated that quarter and settled for 2 FGs. When I've been running the ball with success and get a 1st and GL at the 7 with 7 minutes to go, down by 7, I'm not going to throw 2 incomplete passes. Especially not on 3rd and GL from the 2.

OU did the exact same thing. Tried to start passing in the second half, stayed away from the run.

You are acting like your team is an offensive juggernaut playing against a PeeWee Team. OU led the Big XII in scoring defense, was second in rusing defense, and was 2nd in Red Zone defense. OU was also second, behind yall, in holding on 3rd down. Do you really blame Fran for trying to mix it up and throw from the 7 yard line??? I sure as hell don't.

Originally Posted by macallan25

That is a really really piss poor assumption. If we go 11-1 in each of those three regular seasons with our only losses coming to A&M .........you're gonna tell me Mack Brown would get fired?? Don't think so.

.....Also, I could care less who you have as a head coach. I was merely saying that you can't compare Franchione to RC Slocum at this point. Fran has only been there for a few seasons.

11-1? Maybe not, but if he had gone 4-8, 7-5, 5-6, and 9-4 in those years with losses to us, I guarantee that the burnt orange "faithful" would be more vocal than we are at this point. Mack went 9-3, 9-5, 9-3, and 11-2 with 3 wins vs. A&M in 4 years and 2 Big XII champ. appearances in his first 4 years. Not quite the same.

Had he compiled a record similar to Mackovic, 6-5, 5-5-1, 8-4, 10-2-1, 8-5, 4-7, with 2 wins in 5 years, I'm willing to beat he'd have been shown the door as well. Oh and Mackovic won a Big XII title in there and was gone after the following season.

What it all comes down to is that I am a member of the 12th Man Foundation and a contributer to Aggie Football. Therefore, I can chose to be displeased with any and all performances by AD personnel, as my donations are helping to fund them. If I want to compare Fran's dismal first 4 years (5th year pending) to RC's first 4 years, 8-4, 9-3-1, 10-2, 12-1 with 3 wins over Texas its completely my right. And NOTHING that someone who supports a program that benefits from our continued mediocrity says is going to change my personal opinion.

Kitso
KS 361

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AggieSigmaNu361

11-1? Maybe not, but if he had gone 4-8, 7-5, 5-6, and 9-4 in those years with losses to us, I guarantee that the burnt orange "faithful" would be more vocal than we are at this point. Mack went 9-3, 9-5, 9-3, and 11-2 with 3 wins vs. A&M in 4 years and 2 Big XII champ. appearances in his first 4 years. Not quite the same.

Had he compiled a record similar to Mackovic, 6-5, 5-5-1, 8-4, 10-2-1, 8-5, 4-7, with 2 wins in 5 years, I'm willing to beat he'd have been shown the door as well. Oh and Mackovic won a Big XII title in there and was gone after the following season.

What it all comes down to is that I am a member of the 12th Man Foundation and a contributer to Aggie Football. Therefore, I can chose to be displeased with any and all performances by AD personnel, as my donations are helping to fund them. If I want to compare Fran's dismal first 4 years (5th year pending) to RC's first 4 years, 8-4, 9-3-1, 10-2, 12-1 with 3 wins over Texas its completely my right. And NOTHING that someone who supports a program that benefits from our continued mediocrity says is going to change my personal opinion.

Kitso
KS 361

Calm down Aggie, no one is saying its not your right to be pissed. I think the both of us just find it strange that you are comparing Franchione to a Hall of Fame caliber head football coach.

RC's first 4 games against us? We were 5-6 , 10-2, 5-6, 6-5. We were horrible. That 10-2 season was a fluke, we didn't play anybody till the Cotton Bowl and got destroyed by Miami.

Franchione's first 4 years? We were 10-3, 11-1 with a Rose Bowl win, 13-0, with a National Championship, and 10-3 in a season that was overall a disappointment. I don't care what you say about jobs depending upon beating your rivals...........but I think winning 1 out of 4 in that stretch is ok, especially considering how mediocre your football program had become. In fact, yall had been mediocre since after the '97 season when yall won the South.

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

why are they holding their hands in their laps and bending over in that position?

They are performing a maneuver called “squeeze army.” Basically to share solidarity with the football team during a critical play they squeeze their testicles to endure pain as a sign of support. http://pokerblog.blogspot.com/squeeze_ags.jpg

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

It's called 'humpin' it'. It is a body position that allows for better vocalization of the yells.

Someone needs to go back to Fish Camp.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

They are performing a maneuver called “squeeze army.” Basically to share solidarity with the football team during a critical play they squeeze their testicles to endure pain as a sign of support.

= This Week's Sign of the Apocolypse.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by macallan25

= This Week's Sign of the Apocolypse.

That's right!