NPC adding new council members--do you think it could/will happen?

[sigmadiva]

^^^^

Yeah, me too!

Maybe because I dared to mention what no one really wanted to come out and say - it is also very much rooted in a racial issue.

There is nothing wrong in admitting that.

[Munchkin03]

I don't shy away from discussing racial issues but I'm not sure how much the remote possibility of an NPHC/NPC merger is all about race--other than NPHC chapters tend to be predominantly black while NPC groups historically have been predominantly white but change from region to region).

Recruitment styles, housing (yes, I know that a few NPHC chapters are housed), and the NPC's emphasis on women are three much more important factors that make the councils incompatible.

With the NIC, it makes more sense for the men's groups to share one umbrella because there's less emphasis on uniformity in recruitment, among other things, than there is for the NPC.

[Mevara]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Ok...National Council vs. Local vs. Regional vs. Whatever else debate. Point is, your comment about NPC having nothing to offer was very off-putting, just as it would be if I had come back with something about NPCs being prestigious due to the more universal recognition we receive.

I didn't say that NPC had nothing to offer, this is what I said

I don't see why another sorority would want to join NPC. What does NPC have to offer them?

I had no malice when I asked this question. I think it is a very legitimate question to ask. A sorority who wanted to join NPC would need to see some benefit to joining and I don't know what it would be.

P.S. My GLO is part of NPC.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't think any of that has posed a problem for us (granted, few of our chapters have houses), nor do I think it has been a problem for Kappa Sigma or Phi Delta Theta.

I also know on many campuses, orgs are required to have some sort of local council. This gets into the relationship between local councils and national, too, though, because it's less defined for NIC than for NPC (and NPHC). For example, your school may require you to be a member of the CPH, but the CPH says you don't get a vote because you are not an NPC group. That's not a comfortable place to be.

I think I also remember hearing that there are campuses that only allow NPC/NPHC sororities.

Another thing is uniformity of policies. For example, when many orgs decided to have dry housing around 2000 (Alcohol-Free 2000, I think it was called), they went to the NPC to ask member orgs to support them. NPC agreed to move toward banning wet events in fraternity housing. Before the full ban was in force, it was tough on collegians to be in a chapter with much more restrictive rules than others. It sounds stupid and petty, but it sucks to have your pledges asking why their friends in other orgs are allowed to do X and they are not allowed to do X.

If you're fine without a council, you're fine without a council. I am just trying to answer the question of what a council does for its members. NPC, granted, is largely about recruitment and parity, but there are other things as well.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And I'll echo k_s's .

I don't like being quoted and race-baited when nothing I said has anything to do with race. I have been talking exclusively about orgs that don't already have a council.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

^^^^

Yeah, me too!

Maybe because I dared to mention what no one really wanted to come out and say - it is also very much rooted in a racial issue.

There is nothing wrong in admitting that.

While I'm not sure where the "nonsense" comment came from, I just don't think it's as rooted in race as you want to make it seem.

It has much more to do with membership selection and policies. While I hope my daughter dreams of being an ASA one day, if she goes to a school without ASA, or doesn't like that particular chapter, I'd encourage her to pick a different group, and certainly would not tell her that she should wait and try to join as an alumna later. NPHC aspirants are encouraged to research and pick their org based on a national level - NPC is, for the most part, chapter focused. Yes, there are places where there would be much pearl clutching if a legacy doesn't join her legacy chapter, they are fewer and far between.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I don't shy away from discussing racial issues but I'm not sure how much the remote possibility of an NPHC/NPC merger is all about race --other than NPHC chapters tend to be predominantly black while NPC groups historically have been predominantly white but change from region to region).

Recruitment styles, housing (yes, I know that a few NPHC chapters are housed), and the NPC's emphasis on women are three much more important factors that make the councils incompatible.

With the NIC, it makes more sense for the men's groups to share one umbrella because there's less emphasis on uniformity in recruitment, among other things, than there is for the NPC.

Okay, let's say 98% about race.

To be blunt, I really don't see those Black members who were around before integration and during the Civil Rights Era wanting to subject themselves to a white persons way of doing things.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

While I'm not sure where the "nonsense" comment came from, I just don't think it's as rooted in race as you want to make it seem.

It has much more to do with membership selection and policies. While I hope my daughter dreams of being an ASA one day, if she goes to a school without ASA, or doesn't like that particular chapter, I'd encourage her to pick a different group, and certainly would not tell her that she should wait and try to join as an alumna later. NPHC aspirants are encouraged to research and pick their org based on a national level - NPC is, for the most part, chapter focused. Yes, there are places where there would be much pearl clutching if a legacy doesn't join her legacy chapter, they are fewer and far between.

I beg to differ.

One of the important foundations of the NPHC orgs at their founding was to provide service and uplift the Black race when certain social and economic needs were not being met by the majority. As hard as it seems today to believe that since most people see the NPHC being all about stepping and being on-line, really the focus of the orgs is not that.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I also know on many campuses, orgs are required to have some sort of local council. This gets into the relationship between local councils and national, too, though, because it's less defined for NIC than for NPC (and NPHC). For example, your school may require you to be a member of the CPH, but the CPH says you don't get a vote because you are not an NPC group. That's not a comfortable place to be.

I think I also remember hearing that there are campuses that only allow NPC/NPHC sororities.

Another thing is uniformity of policies. For example, when many orgs decided to have dry housing around 2000 (Alcohol-Free 2000, I think it was called), they went to the NPC to ask member orgs to support them. NPC agreed to move toward banning wet events in fraternity housing. Before the full ban was in force, it was tough on collegians to be in a chapter with much more restrictive rules than others. It sounds stupid and petty, but it sucks to have your pledges asking why their friends in other orgs are allowed to do X and they are not allowed to do X.

If you're fine without a council, you're fine without a council. I am just trying to answer the question of what a council does for its members. NPC, granted, is largely about recruitment and parity, but there are other things as well.



I don't like being quoted and race-baited when nothing I said has anything to do with race. I have been talking exclusively about orgs that don't already have a council.

So what was your point since the NPHC clearly is a council.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Okay, let's say 98% about race.

To be blunt, I really don't see those Black members who were around before integration and during the Civil Rights Era wanting to subject themselves to a white persons way of doing things.

Still a membership selection/tradition issue, not a race one.

Y'all know I'm always up for a good race war, but this isn't it.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Still a membership selection/tradition issue, not a race one.

Y'all know I'm always up for a good race war, but this isn't it.

Co-sign!

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Still a membership selection/tradition issue, not a race one.

Y'all know I'm always up for a good race war, but this isn't it.

I'm not trying to make it a race war. I'm just explaining a reason as to why the NPHC sororities would not want to join the NPC.

And if you push the interpretation one could argue that "tradition" is just another way of saying "historical". And historically speaking, the NPC and NPHC are /were separated by race.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

So what was your point since the NPHC clearly is a council.

I said:

"I really don't see NPHC orgs joining NPC; the more likely scenario is a group not currently with a council."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I also know on many campuses, orgs are required to have some sort of local council. This gets into the relationship between local councils and national, too, though, because it's less defined for NIC than for NPC (and NPHC). For example, your school may require you to be a member of the CPH, but the CPH says you don't get a vote because you are not an NPC group. That's not a comfortable place to be.

And this can go straight to where different "councils" function differently, so there's a danger in applying the standards of one's own "council" to other "council." So far as I know, Kappa Sig and Phi Delta Theta are always members of their campus IFC even when they're not members of the NIC, and it's no problem. Our chapters are members of IFC on those campuses where that works best for us and not on other campuses.

I've certainly never suggested that umbrella organizations do not have great benefit for their members and the Greek system in general. I was merely responding to the three specific examples you gave --puchasing insurance, owning houses and establishing relationships with universities -- in the statement of yours that I quoted.

I don't like being quoted and race-baited when nothing I said has anything to do with race. I have been talking exclusively about orgs that don't already have a council.

I don't see anywhere that anyone race-baited you or quoted you in a context related to race. But if that's what you perceive is happening, then just say so instead of dismissing someone else's "nonsense."

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I said:

"I really don't see NPHC orgs joining NPC; the more likely scenario is a group not currently with a council."

No. I think the comment about the "sigmadiva nonsense".

A few of us did not understand why you said this.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And this can go straight to where different "councils" function differently, so there's a danger in applying the standards of one's own "council" to other "council." So far as I know, Kappa Sig and Phi Delta Theta are always members of their campus IFC even when they're not members of the NIC, and it's no problem. Our chapters are members of IFC on those campuses where that works best for us and not on other campuses.

I've certainly never suggested that umbrella organizations do not have great benefit for their members and the Greek system in general. I was merely responding to the three specific examples you gave --puchasing insurance, owning houses and establishing relationships with universities -- in the statement of yours that I quoted.

Well, in fairness, this is an NPC thread :-)

Do you not feel that the councils help with the things I've mentioned? I've just given specific examples of how they help with university relationships, and if you want specifics on housing, I'm happy to get into details.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

No. I think the comment about the "sigmadiva nonsense".

A few of us did not understand why you said this.

You quoted and responded to a post of mine in a manner that indicated you did not read the original post. I never said anything about NPHC orgs joining NPC orgs. In fact, I said exactly the opposite.

I think suggesting that NPHC orgs should want to join NPC (as posters ahead of me started to do) is about as logical as suggesting that NPC orgs should want to join the NPHC.