Illinois Smoking Ban

[jmagnus]

I'm glad you liked it. At least you got someting good out of this thread.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by 33girl

To me, smoking bans in privately owned establishments are the equivalent of saying every restaurant should have the same menu and every jukebox should have the same songs on it.

Everyone looks at the ban differently, but to me, smoking bans in privately owned establishments are the equivalent of saying every restaurant should meet the same health department codes. It's an issue of health, not one of culinary preferences or ambiance.

Obviously, I'm a supporter of smoking bans. I wish every state had them. Actually, I guess I wish the government would just make smoking illegal altogether. But we all know that won't happen.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by jmagnus

It's the small neighborhood bars that are in danger. It's only been a few days but we have already had 3 bars close down. It was the ones that were barley hanging on to begin with and the ban was the straw that broke the camel's back.

This is totally hilarious - I would doubt most patrons would even KNOW within a few days' time. If these bars are that poorly off, it's specious at best to blame a law for their ultimate demise, and probably impossible to dissociate cause and effect here. How many bars only carry enough money for a few days' nut (including rent, power, etc.)? There's not a single business that operates this way on Earth, at least no successful one - do they pay utilities by the week or day?

Originally Posted by jmagnus

So for all of you that think the ban only inconveniences smokers, guess again. It goes a lot deeper than you think. A lot of good people are going to be standing in the unemployment line quite soon.

Did you not read my point to Earp? Or my point on market forces and their inapplicability?

I seriously doubt this will result in a long-term loss in the total number of beers drank - and any loss in cigarette revenue will almost assuredly be made back by public health gains. After all, that's why cigarettes are taxed in the first place.

Anecdotes do not equal evidence.

[PiKA2001]

This might sound stupid, but they should have bars apply for a smoking license in the same way you apply for a liquor license or topless dancing permit. just limit them so you have a few bars that allow smoking(which the cigar, cigarette, hookah smokers can patron) while the rest can be smoke free.

[jmagnus]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

This might sound stupid, but they should have bars apply for a smoking license in the same way you apply for a liquor license or topless dancing permit. just limit them so you have a few bars that allow smoking(which the cigar, cigarette, hookah smokers can patron) while the rest can be smoke free.

That's a good idea, but it won't happen. The way it is now, if you get 80% of your sales from tobacco products, smoking is allowed. So hookah and cigar bars are fine, as long as they don't serve alcohol.


KSig,
I've been working in the beer industry for a while now. There is no reason we should be as slow as we are right now. From the same time last year we are doing roughly 50% less buisness now...what other reason can you come up with for this? I would love to hear it.

[ZTAngel]

Originally Posted by jmagnus

KSig,
I've been working in the beer industry for a while now. There is no reason we should be as slow as we are right now. From the same time last year we are doing roughly 50% less buisness now...what other reason can you come up with for this? I would love to hear it.

For starters, the economy isn't doing so hot right now which means people aren't spending on entertainment type activities.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by jmagnus

That's a good idea, but it won't happen. The way it is now, if you get 80% of your sales from tobacco products, smoking is allowed. So hookah and cigar bars are fine, as long as they don't serve alcohol.

That may very well depend on the jurisdiction that you're in. I've been to hookah bars here in NYC, where the public smoking ban has been around for a while, that serve liquor AND food. I doubt that the hookah would account for 80% of the total sales of a place like that.

[Tom Earp]

Okay fine. Lets outlaw tobacco altogether.

The Federal and State Governments profess a smoking ban and higher taxes on tobacco.

This will cure everything!

The only people who will have to pay the higher taxes will be smokers and the non smokers will not have to worry about a thing!

So, let us progress into the future!

No tobacco sales. Farms closed, manufactures, closed, wholesalers, closed, and last retailers closed.

Oh, lest we forget all of the people who work for them whether drivers or clerks.

So none of the Billions in taxes collected from the sinful smokers.

So, now, where is that money going to come from? You guessed it! You! The non smoker or chewers!

Where will that money come from? Relastate, alchahol, gasoline, food, sales tax, and god knows where else that will effect your pocket.

If you do not want to go where smokers go, do not go. Smokers do not go where they are not wanted. I will not spend my money there!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by jmagnus

KSig,
I've been working in the beer industry for a while now. There is no reason we should be as slow as we are right now. From the same time last year we are doing roughly 50% less buisness now...what other reason can you come up with for this? I would love to hear it.

That's interesting, but the ban didn't go into effect this time last year, did it?

A smoking ban might be one piece, but people can drink in their homes as well - I'm not sure why this would result in a 50% drop for a distributor, and it doesn't pass the smell test. However, a flatlining economy may very well result in a severe shortage of entertainment dollars, not to mention the market share Miller and A/B are losing to craft brews and other alcoholic beverages . . .

It's likely much more complex than a smoking ban.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

not to mention the market share Miller and A/B are losing to craft brews and other alcoholic beverages . . .

And how AlphaFrog is glad of this...

[KDAngel]

Great job IL!!

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by jmagnus

Monet,
This is not a personal attack but your post reminds me of PETA. Taken to the extreme and showing the worst-case-scenario.

I can either quote stats all day with you or show you the facts of medical pathology.

I am a scientist, I have studies heart disease and cancer. I have seen these things in animals and I have necropsied the huge sarcomas in mice. These are NOT a joke. This is how it happens. It takes ~20-40 years to develop. I also have had and currently have family members battling this addiction.

Moreover, it is well known that the cigarette companies adulterate their tobacco with more nicotine, etc.--like arsenic and benzene.

Now, I can go down to where there is FasL and Fas ligand signal transduction mechanism with global genomic rearrangment of your DNA or convince you that your vice should be practiced outside the city limits of your area... Period...

And I am coming from one of the people in California that started this whole ban thing in the first place 10 years ago... There is less nicotine smoking related emphesyma...

Notice how I said nicotine, because there are plenty of Californians that still smoke--other things most are illegal, but they still smoke...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

This might sound stupid, but they should have bars apply for a smoking license in the same way you apply for a liquor license or topless dancing permit. just limit them so you have a few bars that allow smoking(which the cigar, cigarette, hookah smokers can patron) while the rest can be smoke free.

In California they actually do, but they are are difficult to keep up.

You have to have several large building hepa filtered air conditioners to not discharge the exhaled smoke into the atmosphere. From what I understand, these are the same kind of air filters Navy subs use--so they are not cheap.

Secondly, you have to have medical waivers and increased disability insurance for all your workers. And another tag line for patrons so they cannot sue you for endangering their lives.

Then if there is alcohol served, you have to have security personnel to verify that everyone is a legal adult.

And if you serve food, then you are under the laws of public health inspection.

It just gets too cost ineffective to run these joints.

That's why most of them moved to Vegas, Florida and New Orleans--pre-Katrina.

These same rules do not apply for Cannabis Clubs in California--their run like wine bars...

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Okay fine. Lets outlaw tobacco altogether.

The Federal and State Governments profess a smoking ban and higher taxes on tobacco.

This will cure everything!

The only people who will have to pay the higher taxes will be smokers and the non smokers will not have to worry about a thing!

So, let us progress into the future!

No tobacco sales. Farms closed, manufactures, closed, wholesalers, closed, and last retailers closed.

Oh, lest we forget all of the people who work for them whether drivers or clerks.

So none of the Billions in taxes collected from the sinful smokers.

So, now, where is that money going to come from? You guessed it! You! The non smoker or chewers!

Where will that money come from? Relastate, alchahol, gasoline, food, sales tax, and god knows where else that will effect your pocket.

If you do not want to go where smokers go, do not go. Smokers do not go where they are not wanted. I will not spend my money there!

I'm not sure what relastate is, but it seems like you need a glass of scotch and a xanax.

Calm down crazy man.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ZTAngel

For starters, the economy isn't doing so hot right now which means people aren't spending on entertainment type activities.

And on top of that, gas prices are upwards of $3.20 for just the cheap stuff.

Most people's "fun budgets" are being put to other uses.