Delta Zeta Reportedly Sues DePauw

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by Heather17

My point was--this likely will not kill them.

I know this was posted a couple of times on the other thread but I'll go ahead and say this again:

I get the feeling that a lot of next years freshman are going to be wary of going DZ due to this situation. DZ just made it worse for themselves (although, really, I didn't think they were able to). If this starts to affect numbers everywhere for DZ and you see chapters starting to close, this will be a huge lost for DZ. #'s go down, 3 of chapters go down. Simple?

[UGAalum94]

Those of you who are DZs, how do you feel about this?

[Tom Earp]

Great a statement.

Sorry, got to go!

[UGAalum94]

Weird, weird, weird. One of the things Delta Zeta is seeking is for DePauw to state that the group didn't make any decisions based on appearance or race.

How could DePauw know how Delta Zeta made its membership decisions?

Different topic:

"Kevin O'Neill, an attorney with Patton Boggs in Washington, D.C., who has been consulting with Delta Zeta officials but did not file the lawsuit. If punitive damages are awarded, he said, the sorority plans to reinvest that money into self-esteem programming for women at DePauw and re-establishing their chapter."

Snort.

I don't claim to know how the group or the university made their decisions in the past, but really, self-esteem programming?

[kddani]

Originally Posted by Heather17

they have 157 chapters--it sounds like they are pretty set.

And that may very well dwindle. Membership numbers will be down in the fall, and the longer this gets dragged out, the worse the results will be. Those 157 chapters have to be maintained. Thinking that this won't have any affect on their numbers and reputation is a mistake.

I'd also imagine that alumnae donations will decrease greatly, and they probably already have. This lawsuit will cost an arm and a leg. DZ's finances are going to likely be in peril.

There's a saying in law school/the legal field "bad facts equals bad law". If DZ did want to set an example and create certain "rights" for sororities and fraternities, they picked a horrible case to bring. This is NOT the case you want to use to set an example.

[Glitter650]

Originally Posted by TSteven

The lawsuit could have implications for fraternities and sororities nationwide. Generally, universities have no say over the internal operations of fraternities and sororities. "For a university to say, 'If you place this person on alumnae status, then we're not going to let you operate anymore,' the university is deciding that they get to choose the members," O'Neill [Kevin O'Neill, Delta Zeta's attorney] says. "That's a major concern for all the fraternities."

While I see the argument I see some holes in the logic behind it, Mainly the fact that I don't believe Depauw made the decision to not allow DZ on campus was based PURELY on the fact that these ladies were given alumnae status. Second if it was true that no University has say over *Any* internal operations of a chapter is crazy because orgs are bound by University housing rules, student organization standards, and academic standards. There is a close tie between GLO and University that can not be denied, especially if the University owns the land the GLO is housing its members in.


I don't see why DZ wants to be back on campus.. if they thought they had a numbers problem before... I'm sure it's not going to improve the situation to come back after this mess....IF they do win and the chapter is allowed back on campus, I'm pretty sure they'll be rewarded with a rush party with the gentle sound of crickets in the background.

[TSteven]

I can understand why these should be valid concerns. However, I agree with Heather17 that this possible litigation will likely not harm them in the long run.

(Note: I'm just using OTW's post since she has summed up nicely the likely issues arising out of the possible litigation.)

Originally Posted by OTW

Just because they have 157 chapters they should be content with not having to expand?

Maybe I don't understand how expansion works, but doesn't the campus NPC decide which NPC organization to invite and not the university? My guess is that in the short term, expansion may be put on hold by their HQ. Perhaps in perceived "weak" areas. (i.e. areas without alumna or other chapters). But I would also venture to guess that Delta Zeta will continue to do well in areas where they have a strong alumni base and respected chapters. In the long run, I feel they will be fine. My guess is that they do not *have to* expand at this time to continue to thrive down the line.

What about the effects of this negative publicity going into recruitment? What if PNMs don't want DZ and will have a negative opinion of DZ because of this?

I doubt that any 18 or 19 year old college freshman is going to be concerned about some sort of litigation thing when rushing. They will be more concerned about the specific chapter on their specific campus.

However, it would make for some fun rush threads. "Like OMG, I so like ABC cause they didn't sue the university." Or "I'm all for XYZ cause I want to be a lawyer and they are know as the suing sorority."

157 is a great number, but G-d forbid any more of their chapters will close because the DePauw debacle.

Perhaps I missed something, but has any other Delta Zeta chapter closed because of the DePauw debacle? If not, then why would any chapter close *because of* the DePauw debacle?

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by kddani

Has anyone seen a copy of the complaint? Anybody know the docket number?

Can't find it on Lexis or West and I'm guessing I shouldn't steal my bosses' PACER access for this - it's in the Southern District of Indiana if you want to go romping for it.

Originally Posted by TSteven

Maybe I don't understand how expansion works, but doesn't the campus NPC decide which NPC organization to invite and not the university? My guess is that in the short term, expansion may be put on hold by their HQ.

You're right, it is the campus PHC that decides which NPC will be invited to expand. However, to say that this won't be taken into consideration by the women who sit on PHC is just plain ridiculous. I'm sure they'll make the best decisions on what's right for their campus, but this situation's left DZ with a big fat Scarlet Letter, IMO.

I doubt that any 18 or 19 year old college freshman is going to be concerned about some sort of litigation thing when rushing. They will be more concerned about the specific chapter on their specific campus.

You live in a perfect world. Sure, we'll have the open minded PNMs, but speaking as someone who used to be an impressionable 18 year old freshman, reps are everything. They don't give a shit about the litigation, but I'm thinking that there will be a lot of them who won't want to rush a sorority with a national bad rep even though it's at no fault of the individual chapters.

Perhaps I missed something, but has any other Delta Zeta chapter closed because of the DePauw debacle? If not, then why would any chapter close *because of* the DePauw debacle?

No chapters have closed. See kddani's post above. She explains it nicely.

[Tom Earp]

Sorry but KD screwed up and trying now making amends and or suing!

What is wrong with this picture!

Is the school wrong? Is the GLO wrong?

[Beryana]

While I don't necessarily agree with the lawsuit, but who started the media frenzy that has lead to the lawsuit? Was it the chapter members that were granted alumnae status or was it the university?

[NutBrnHair]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Sorry but KD screwed up and trying now making amends and or suing!

What is wrong with this picture!

Is the school wrong? Is the GLO wrong?

::::::::::ducking:::::::::::

[UGAalum94]

I doubt that really strong chapters have much to worry about if their reputations on campus are solid. I agree that to PNMs, reputation is paramount, but local reputation may matter more than national rep. if the chapter is highly desirable already.

Weaker chapters working to rebuild and strengthen are likely to be affected the most, and they are already in the most precarious position. Questionable local reputation plus complicated national image crisis equals low turnout on bid day, I'm willing to bet.

I just can't see how staying out of the news isn't the best course of action. Maybe we'll be amazed at how wrong the information in the press is. (Heck, I agree that the media generally keeps reporting the story they know gets attention. Sometimes they are a little more casual about following up with the real details.)

ETA: Oh, NutBrwHair, me too. I don't want to get caught in the crossfire I think is about to break out. Tom, did you post that error intentionally? KD????? Correct it, man.

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Sorry but KD screwed up and trying now making amends and or suing!

What is wrong with this picture!

Is the school wrong? Is the GLO wrong?

Um, it's Delta Zeta.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

"Kevin O'Neill, an attorney with Patton Boggs in Washington, D.C., who has been consulting with Delta Zeta officials but did not file the lawsuit. If punitive damages are awarded, he said, the sorority plans to reinvest that money into self-esteem programming for women at DePauw and re-establishing their chapter."

So does this mean that the members were given alumna status, not because of their apperance or race, but because they had low-self esteem?