University fo Okahoma-Sigma Alpha Epsilon-Racial Chant

[FloridaTish]

Boy is he going to be a popular guy on campus once his name is made public! His parents must be so proud!

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by SOM

New Video Appears To Show Face Of Man Who Led Oklahoma Frat's Racist Chant http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...ampaign=buffer

Glad I don't go to that site regularly. The comments are on the same level as the horrible song this kid sang.

IQ, meet room temperature.

[MU2Driver]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Now I think you are cherry-picking. And I'm not buying your "no different than many other OU students" which you've brought up twice now. Does that make it right, or somehow lessen the nature of the act? I'm pretty sure it does not. And we're not talking about the OU student body, so unless you have data to support your claim, let's not go there.

Wrong is wrong: where is the teaching moment in what happened on that bus? The teaching moment happened when those "men" were children. And apparently it failed.

When you shatter the glass, saying "sorry" doesn't put the glass back together again. You sweep up the glass shards and you throw them in the trash.

I've brought it up twice because it's a good point and one that you choose to ignore. Today you're fine with it because it doesn't affect your organization. One day it will be different and you will want a more thoughtful and nuanced approach.
The combination of condemning entire groups for the conduct a few and condemning because of speech (vile speech, but still only speech) is dangerous. The First Amendment is there to protect unpopular speech.

[Shellfish]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlum

Glad I don't go to that site regularly. The comments are on the same level as the horrible song this kid sang.

IQ, meet room temperature.

Really? They're not sympathetic from what I see, mostly ironic.

[FloridaTish]

MU2Driver,

I wasn't quick enough to QFP your original comment you made, but you said "They didn't say "Let's kill black people"; they said "we don't want black people in our private club". Most GLOs are still essentially segregated; that's just a fact. Most churches are still segregated. In fact, Sunday morning has often been called the most segregated hour in America."

Did you miss the "You can hang them from a tree" part? The lynching of black men in our country's history is abhorrent and yes, them singing about it doesn't directly say "Let's kill black people", but it may as well be.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by MU2Driver

I've brought it up twice because it's a good point and one that you choose to ignore. Today you're fine with it because it doesn't affect your organization. One day it will be different and you will want a more thoughtful and nuanced approach.
The combination of condemning entire groups for the conduct a few and condemning because of speech (vile speech, but still only speech) is dangerous. The First Amendment is there to protect unpopular speech.

First, THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOES NOT PROTECT YOU FROM THE REPERCUSSIONS OF YOUR SPEECH. It specifically addresses what the GOVERNMENT can do (or not do) to regulate your speech. You are still subject to the consequences of your speech.

Second, is today logical fallacy day at GC? Because MU2Driver, your argument is not, in fact a good one; Tu quoque and bandwagon fallacies do not help your case.

Third, we are not talking about one or two rogue members. We are talking about a self-identified group representing SAE as being horribly racist (not to mention stupid). Surely at some point during their new member period it was impressed upon them that they represent SAE in all their actions. Would I feel the same if it were my sisters? No. I would feel WORSE because I know that is NOT what my organization stands for, I would not want to be lumped in with them, and I would WELCOME any "sister" who acted that way in being shown the door, and any chapter which condoned, either actively or passively, that sort of unconscionable behavior having their charter pulled.

Yes, it reflects badly on SAE, but the fact of the matter is that any negative actions by any GLO reflects badly on ALL GLOs, and to John Q. Public the individual letters don't matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NRl66yUtG8

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by MU2Driver

I've brought it up twice because it's a good point and one that you choose to ignore. Today you're fine with it because it doesn't affect your organization. One day it will be different and you will want a more thoughtful and nuanced approach.
The combination of condemning entire groups for the conduct a few and condemning because of speech (vile speech, but still only speech) is dangerous. The First Amendment is there to protect unpopular speech.

I am not ignoring your point, I am sticking to the topic. You are bringing in the "everyone else does it" reasoning and that doesn't fly with me.

As for the bolded, you could not be more wrong on that. You are a relative newcomer to GC and apparently you do not know me well at all. Further, it doesn't matter whose ox is getting gored here, contrary to your claim. This time it's SAE, but last week it was Theta, or Chi O, or Kappa - whatever. I am not changing my stance depending on the letters. I have zero tolerance for this type of behavior.

And this is NOT a First Amendment issue. The Federal government is not punishing SAE. And, the First Amendment does not protect you from the consequences of your speech. Don't ignore that fundamental principle.

[violetgeek]

Originally Posted by MU2Driver

No, I don't believe that only the 20 bus riders knew the chant. I first heard the chant as an undergraduate in the early 80s. It was prevalent then; it's not prevalent now. Attitudes take time to change.

Would they have sung the song in public? I don't think so; I think they knew it was wrong. And, if given the opportunity to apologize and repent, I think they would. I think a teaching moment was lost because in today's environment anything less than the "death penalty" in cases like this is criticized.

There is no reason to believe that the SAEs at OU are particularly different from many other students at OU. The university administration may feel better about itself today for crushing a 100+ year old chapter, but I fear it will only drive the problem further underground and delay real progress.

There your problem right there -- we knew in the 80s that this was WRONG. The people who sang it then are the parents of the kids singing it now -- they learned this behavior from adults -- they aren't smart enough to have original thought. And, their parents didn't care enough to teach them to not voice those opinions in public. I hope they -- the kids and their parents -- get what they deserve. Public ridicule -- which hopefully will result in some soul searching.

If you are a religious person, pray for their souls because if this is the type of person they are, they are going to need it.

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by MU2Driver

I've brought it up twice because it's a good point and one that you choose to ignore. Today you're fine with it because it doesn't affect your organization. One day it will be different and you will want a more thoughtful and nuanced approach.
The combination of condemning entire groups for the conduct a few and condemning because of speech (vile speech, but still only speech) is dangerous. The First Amendment is there to protect unpopular speech.

Wrong. The first amendment is there to protect you from the Government limiting your speech. The first amendment does not protect from the fall out of speaking an unpopular opinion. I'm so sick of the free speech argument.

[banditone]

I guess what is really surprising to me is that everyone is acting so "surprised" this goes on.

Also, my prediction is they are back on campus in about 5 years. As disgusting as it is, to many wealthy alumni.

[ChioLu]

The SAE letters were removed from their OU chapter house today.
http://t.co/fAR3aaJ1vJ
Most likely, to prevent vandalism.

Sooner football team praying before practice today.
http://t.co/kVvssaqReP
Many players plus coaches were at the anti-racism rally this morning.

[SOM]

Originally Posted by banditone

I guess what is really surprising to me is that everyone is acting so "surprised" this goes on.

Also, my prediction is they are back on campus in about 5 years. As disgusting as it is, to many wealthy alumni.

Why would that be "disgusting"? This has nothing to do with National. Generally 5 years is the starting point. By then everyone connected to issue/matter is gone and a new, clean start can be done. I do agree with you
about the alumni. I have had a rather strong suspicion that there sadly is an alumni involved somewhere in this matter. And not in any sort of a good way. One can only hope that at least one of the several investigations can and does find the true root cause to this event, this matter and pulls it out and gets ride of it for good. From what I have seen and heard, National will not stop at an Alumni no matter who it is. And Brother Pickens is from the other Oklahoma school. Have to wonder if he is at all too happy with the new photo going around about them.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by banditone

I guess what is really surprising to me is that everyone is acting so "surprised" this goes on.

Also, my prediction is they are back on campus in about 5 years. As disgusting as it is, too many wealthy alumni.

I know plenty of alums from that particular chapter who are shocked about what was happening or at least claim to be.

But yeah, the first one of them I read a tweet about it from... well the lake my house is adjacent to is named for his grandfather.

FWIW, I don't think of this as an alumni problem. It's probably some crap an undergrad pulled off of some TFM-like site which he thought he might be able to use to gain attention.

Bravo.. success..

[exlurker]

FWIW, CNN report midafternoon Monday, with remarks by the university's president, events causing the chapter closure, eviction from the house, and so on:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/09/us/okl...ternity-chant/

Many parents or grandparents from IFC and NPC groups can likely tell of similar chants or songs. Doesn't make them right, then or now.


See also:
http://www.nola.com/recruiting/index..._ots_comm.html

The chant controversy seems to be affecting sports recruitment; “offensive tackle Jean Delance decommitted from Oklahoma this morning [Monday].”
Athlletes are voicing their views: running back Eric Striker is mentioned in the above article.

[Aloha123]

To the poster above who said what was surprising is that people are so "surprised" that things like this happen. I am one of those surprised, and honestly, sickened people. I live in a place of great racial diversity and while its not perfect, people try to get along and be respectful of each other. I watch the kids here hang out together and skin color seems to be the last thing on their minds. I guess I was naieve to think or hope that things were getting better. So yes, I am surprised that a song/chant like this would be seen as acceptable by the fraternity members. It honestly breaks my heart that it is.