Gunman Opens Fire During "The Dark Knight Rises"

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And if the sane and good people are the only ones who are disarmed, that's a good thing?

Not to mention several studies have shown that CHL/CCW holders are less likely to commit ANY crime compared to the general population and about 98% of all shootings are committed by non CHL/CCW holders. I tend to quit listening when people start talking like that what you quoted. I'm all for having a discussion on how to attack the black market arms trade but I think a lot of people's fear and ignorance of firearms gets in the way of that.

But yes, let's ban guns for everyone but the criminals and murderers who obtain their firearms illegally to begin with.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

There's no logical reason for people to be wandering around with concealed weapons. .

Yep, I totally agree. I'm not sure about gun control in other states, but here, people are allowed to have a concealed weapon. On top of that, the police force has been reduced here in some cities, as well. That just doesn't make any sense, to me.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Yep, I totally agree. I'm not sure about gun control in other states, but here, people are allowed to have a concealed weapon. On top of that, the police force has been reduced here in some cities, as well. That just doesn't make any sense, to me.

It doesn't make sense to you because you're ignorant of the statistics. Back in the 80s when states started allowing CHL's anti gun activists were chomping at the bite to show a correlation between CHL holders and increased crime rates or shootings. It never happened. In fact, studies conducted have shown that CHL holders are less likely to commit ANY crime than a non CHL holder. Don't use your fear of guns paint a law abiding citizen as a potential criminal.

[IrishLake]

Signed up for a concealed carry class just 2 weeks ago.

[ASUADPi]

The whole situation is tragic.

I went and saw the movie today and my FB friends posted for me to be safe. Usually when I post I'm seeing a movie, I get "enjoy the movie" or "let me know how it is" not "be safe". It is weird.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families as well as everyone else in the theater who, while not physically wounded, might be emotionally/mentally wounded by what happened.

I'm glad that the shooter was quickly apprehended and is in police custody. If his defense attorney is smart he will advice his client to take a deal, as he is screwed and I'm not sure how much of an impartial jury he might find considering the media attention surrounding the case.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

I'm glad that the shooter was quickly apprehended and is in police custody. If his defense attorney is smart he will advice his client to take a deal, as he is screwed and I'm not sure how much of an impartial jury he might find considering the media attention surrounding the case.

My prediction is that there is no way in hell that a deal is offered here. The state's going to want the needle.

[AOII Angel]

In the state of Arizona, which has concealed carry AND some of the most lax gun laws in the country, death by gunshot wound is more common than death by motor vehicle crash. This only happens in 3 states in the union. That is astounding since nationwide motor vehicle crashes account for the majority of deaths of people ages 4-34. Homicide is #2 in the 4-24 group, but that includes all types of homicide. That is a lot of gun violence in Arizona that has not been improved by concealed carry or putting more guns in law abiding citizens hands. More guns does not equal less death by guns.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

In the state of Arizona, which has concealed carry AND some of the most lax gun laws in the country, death by gunshot wound is more common than death by motor vehicle crash. This only happens in 3 states in the union. That is astounding since nationwide motor vehicle crashes account for the majority of deaths of people ages 4-34. Homicide is #2 in the 4-24 group, but that includes all types of homicide. That is a lot of gun violence in Arizona that has not been improved by concealed carry or putting more guns in law abiding citizens hands. More guns does not equal less death by guns.

First of all AZ is a weird state. Something is in the water, or lack of water, to make the people there "off". They have the most suicide by gun and police shootings per population then any other state. You can use these stats to try to prove any point you want but it's hard to get anything to stick. Look at California for example. They have the strictest gun laws in the union yet are consistently number one in the country for violent gun crimes so the more restrictions, less death argument isn't exactly a solid one.

[dukedg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

First of all AZ is a weird state. Something is in the water, or lack of water, to make the people there "off". They have the most suicide by gun and police shootings per population then any other state. You can use these stats to try to prove any point you want but it's hard to get anything to stick. Look at California for example. They have the strictest gun laws in the union yet are consistently number one in the country for violent gun crimes so the more restrictions, less death argument isn't exactly a solid one.

Will you please post your source? I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but I have to defend California! Here's a link to statistics on a per capita basis, that disproves your comment above. I realize this article is out of date, so perhaps you have a more current source? http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...rt-of-comments

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by dukedg

Will you please post your source? I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but I have to defend California! Here's a link to statistics on a per capita basis, that disproves your comment above. I realize this article is out of date, so perhaps you have a more current source? http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...rt-of-comments

I was referring to the actual numbers of murders, not the per capita rate. CA seems to be 12th per capita but still has the most handgun murders in the country at 953 handgun murders. The second place goes to TX at 581 gun murders. Take it for what it is but like i've been saying, if there was a definite correlation between gun laws and murder rates this debate would have been settled long ago.

[ibis]

I guess that no one ever knows what is in a persons mind. No one knows what may make a persons mind snap.
Parents always say He is a good boy, but who actually knows?
According to Drs. or Lawyers in court, they were abused as a child or bullied in life.

But some with so called normal lives can be triggered by some small thing in the brain that no one knows about.

Guns are just made of metal and do not go off by themselves and neither do bombs unless there is a human factor to pull the trigger or drop the bomb.

I guess I will never join the 72 virgins in the after life as I do not plan on shooting or killing anyone.

We must keep guns for a way to defend each other. If we as Colonists did not have guns, we would be speaking The Kings English.

Now I wonder how long it will be before he goes to court and even if he will be convicted? How much will it cost us as tax payers to keep this rat bastard in bed and breakfast?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ibis

I guess that no one ever knows what is in a persons mind. No one knows what may make a persons mind snap.
Parents always say He is a good boy, but who actually knows?
According to Drs. or Lawyers in court, they were abused as a child or bullied in life.

But some with so called normal lives can be triggered by some small thing in the brain that no one knows about.

Guns are just made of metal and do not go off by themselves and neither do bombs unless there is a human factor to pull the trigger or drop the bomb.

I guess I will never join the 72 virgins in the after life as I do not plan on shooting or killing anyone.

We must keep guns for a way to defend each other. If we as Colonists did not have guns, we would be speaking The Kings English.

Now I wonder how long it will be before he goes to court and even if he will be convicted? How much will it cost us as tax payers to keep this rat bastard in bed and breakfast?

TEITY?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

First of all AZ is a weird state. Something is in the water, or lack of water, to make the people there "off". They have the most suicide by gun and police shootings per population then any other state. You can use these stats to try to prove any point you want but it's hard to get anything to stick. Look at California for example. They have the strictest gun laws in the union yet are consistently number one in the country for violent gun crimes so the more restrictions, less death argument isn't exactly a solid one.

I'll agree that AZ is weird, but having the most lax gun laws with more guns running around than any other state CANNOT be discounted as a reason for these stats.

[AOII Angel]

BTW, I was wrong, it is ten states not three with this historic change in #1 cause of death to gun violence rather than motor vehicle crash. I thought I heard 3 when I was listening to reports of this on NPR, but I found different reports when I looked for references on the Internet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-s...b_1536793.html

Alaska: 104 gun deaths, 84 motor vehicle deaths
Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths
Colorado: 583 gun deaths, 565 motor vehicle deaths
Indiana: 735 gun deaths, 715 motor vehicle deaths
Michigan: 1,095 gun deaths, 977 motor vehicle deaths
Nevada: 406 gun deaths, 255 motor vehicle deaths
Oregon: 417 gun deaths, 394 motor vehicle deaths
Utah: 260 gun deaths, 256 motor vehicle deaths
Virginia: 836 gun deaths, 827 motor vehicle deaths
Washington: 623 gun deaths, 580 motor vehicle deaths

Please note that none of these are California or any other liberal bastion of gun control.

[Jeff OTMG]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

In the state of Arizona, which has concealed carry AND some of the most lax gun laws in the country, death by gunshot wound is more common than death by motor vehicle crash. This only happens in 3 states in the union. That is astounding since nationwide motor vehicle crashes account for the majority of deaths of people ages 4-34. Homicide is #2 in the 4-24 group, but that includes all types of homicide. That is a lot of gun violence in Arizona that has not been improved by concealed carry or putting more guns in law abiding citizens hands. More guns does not equal less death by guns.

This is from a report by Josh Sugarman. He is the executive director of the VPC, an anti-gun group. I will not quote information from the NRA because it is biased. According to Sugarman's article in 05/12, there are 10 states where 'gun related deaths' exceed motor vehicle deaths (not motor vehicle related deaths) Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths. A motor vehicle 'related' death would be if a car fell off blocks and crushed the guy working on it. If it rolled through a parking lot and ran someone over. If someone started the car and sat in it while in a closed garage committing suicide. Those numbers are probably small, but they are tabulated under other categories, home accident, suicide, etc. What Sugarman doesn't mention is how many of the gun deaths are suicides. According to the American Foundation of Suicide Prevention 36,909 people committed suicide in 2009 and firearms are used in 50% of suicides.

Firearms are used in more suicides than homicides.
Death by firearms is the fastest growing method of suicide.
Firearms account for 50 percent of all suicides.
http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseac...135c3a70de1fda

Sugarman fails to mention that of those 856 deaths, about 425 of them were suicides. He conveniently leaves that out because it doesn't help the issue that he is promoting. So homicide, justifiable homicide, and accidental gun deaths in Arizona are about one half of the motor vehicle death rate.

Do not attempt to equate guns with suicide because the suicide rate in Japan is double that of the US and there are not any guns to speak of in Japan, so claiming that suicide rates are related to a prevelance of guns is simply not true.