Should fine dining establishments go out of their way to accomodate toddlers?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by GMUBunny

We got "Do you need to go to the ladies' room?" That meant something less-than-pleasant was on the way, and we straightened up immediately. People couldn't believe that my parents would bring their 6-year-old into a French restaurant. At the end of the night though, they almost always complimented my parents on how well-behaved we were.

HA. My parents' favorite line was "do we need to go outside?"

I think people should start their kids out at kid-friendly places if they've never dined out before, so they can learn. As they become older/better mannered it's ok to move up. But far too many people don't bother to teach manners and expect them to behave in a fine dining setting. That doesn't happen.

[KSUViolet06]

Nope.

If you can afford to go out to eat at a nice place, you can afford a sitter.

If you want your kids to dine with you, you need to take them somewhere that is more "kid friendly."

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Nope.

If you can afford to go out to eat at a nice place, you can afford a sitter.

If you want your kids to dine with you, you need to take them somewhere that is more "kid friendly."

Ditto on that.

[Katmandu]

IrishLake, totally OT, but Jeff Ruby knows how to cook a steak for sure. The Precinct....yum. Also Bootsies!

And yes, even if the children are well behaved, when someone else's little ones are sitting practically in your lap, it does change the ambience.

[GMUBunny]

As a mother of two young children (4 and 2-going-on-20), I can say with certainty that children should be left at home if you're going to an upscale restaurant. If I'm in one, it's because I want a night away from snotty noses and Yo Gabba Gabba reruns. Your toddler or preschooler throwing silverware on the ground or screaming because she doesn't like peas is going to ruin that for me.

Now, as far as fine-r dining that's not considered "upscale": If your child can behave themselves, sure, bring them along. If they can't- again, leave them at home. My son can sit in just about any nice restaurant and behave himself. I make sure to have his food delivered first (typically with our appetizer) so that he is occupied throughout the remainder of the evening. My daughter, however, is simply a nightmare and we can't take her anywhere (haven't been able to since she was an infant). They are both raised the same way as far as public behavior is concerned, but they are like night and day in terms of personality. Sometimes you just can't do anything about it but leave the kid at home.

[IrishLake]

I have a 4 year old, and 2 year old. both of them are very well behaved 90% of the time. But like all people, they both have their bad days. I can and do take them out to eat at normal, family friendly restaurants. i have taken them out to nicer family friendly restaurants, and they have done fine. we practice exactly what PeppyGPhiB said: MANNERS. My kids get in BIG trouble if they do not say please, thank you, and you're welcome on a regular basis. even my 2 year old son (who is being evaluated for speech therapy tomorrow) knows how to say please an thank you, without being prompted. however, his speech issues also lead to a lot of frustrating tantrums when he cannot communicate what he wants or needs. which means, until that issue is resolved, we'll stick to applebees.

now... right before christmas this past year, my husband and i went out to a very nice Jeff Ruby's restaurant as a surprise. very close tables, very intimate. naturally, the party of 4 seated less than 2 feet away from us was a family of 4, the two kids were probably 6 and 4. they were VERY well behaved. but i still did not feel comfortable, because i felt like i couldnt have a regular adult conversation. i still felt in mommy mode.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

but i still did not feel comfortable, because i felt like i couldnt have a regular adult conversation. i still felt in mommy mode.

True story, I went to a nice restaurant with some girlfriends and the tables were very close. We sat next to a group of what I think were 2 moms and their kids one was like 3 and the other kid was maybe 5. But they were kind of in the corner so we didn't see them.

So, we are having regular conversation. One of my friends was talking about a "non kid friendly topic" and the little girl says "Mommy, that lady over there said "not kid friendly word." [it wasn't the f word or anything, it might have been boobs or something silly] Mom said "That's not a good word for kids to hear."

I thought she was just discouraging he from repeating what other people say, but then she gets up, comes over to us and tells us to "CHANGE THE TOPIC because it is not appropiate for her kids." [I believe her exact wording was "I'd appreciate it if you'd talk about something else because my kids are over here and they don't need to hear that"]

I seriously couldn't believe that someone would ask that, when this is clearly not a kiddie restaurant and you're the only people with kids in this place. I'm not going to alter my conversation (with people I only see once a year, no less) because you brought your children to a more adult establishment.

My friend politely suggested that she grab the hostess and ask for another seat.

[IrishLake]

KSUViolet.... oh HELL no! your friend is nicer than i would have been. and if i were that mom, i'd either move, or tell my kid we would talk about it at home later.

[IrishLake]

Katmandu, that's exactly where we were too, The Precinct. It was my first time there, and the food was absolutely delish. I've never had a better steak, (I am not a huge steak person, only in certain moods). Not at Mortons, Cameron Mitchel's places... which are very good. The atmosphere was wonderful, the service phenomonal. Both of the kids sitting next to me were each eating the mac n cheese sides as their entrees. Looked so good, that's what I got as one of my sides too, plus sweet potato casserole, which was sweet enough to serve as my dessert.

(Should I mention that 4 hours later I was puking my $60 meal up? No idea what happened. Not food poisoning because my husband ate a little bit of everything on my plate, and he was fine. I think it was because it had been so long since I had rare red meat in my system, that my body didnt remember how to digest it).

[Katmandu]

IrishLake, my last Precinct meal: Dry martini, house salad, Filet Collinsworth (unbelievable), sweet potato casserole, merlot. Service and food outstanding! I know what you mean... when you typically eat low fat and not a lot of red meat, one meal like that can play havoc on your system.

Now back to the thread....

[ForeverRoses]

I have three boys that have trouble sitting still even in family friendly restaurants- I cannot imagine taking them anywhere nicer than a TGI Fridays type of place.

I remember when I was a kid, when we turned 10 (I'm the youngest of 4), my parents made a big deal of taking us out to a nice restaurant for our birthday (just kid and parents- no siblings). I remember getting all dressed up and being so excited for my first "nice" restaurant outing.

My parents took me to Red Lobster. But I thought it was the fanciest place ever and was on my best behavior- I remember the manager even kissing my hand when he came over to our table to wish me a happy birthday.

I guess it is all perspective.

[Low C Sharp]

Far too many ADULTS, let alone children, in this country don't know how to handle themselves in a nice, adult setting.

This. I don't draw the line between fellow diners based on age, but on behavior. IMHO, anyone who behaves appropriately for the setting is welcome at the table next to me; those who do not, are not.

The article lists a few child-friendly restaurants because most places of that caliber do not welcome children. There are something like 10,000 restaurants in New York City. It makes sense to me that some upscale ones would cater to children (particularly those based in hotels, like the Robuchon place in the Four Seasons) and others would not. I don't have any problem with a subset of restaurants branding themselves as more welcoming and others more exclusive. Last year my family brought our two-year-old to lunch at the Four Seasons in San Francisco and received, bar none, the best service I've ever seen in my life -- service so superb that it kept the child happy and quiet for much longer than we had expected to stay in the restaurant.

That being said, there are four little kids in my extended family right now, and they're very different from one another. I have a 4-year-old nephew who, frankly, I don't enjoy taking to McDonald's. I would go hungry before I'd bring him to Gramercy Tavern! But my 7-year-old niece has been a superb dining companion, with excellent manners and varied tastes, since she was 2. We didn't blink an eye bringing her to white-tablecloth places (albeit not of the Daniel or Per Se caliber), and she was better dressed and better behaved than some of the adult diners.
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Medical Marijuana Dispensary Santa Clarita

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

This. I don't draw the line between fellow diners based on age, but on behavior. IMHO, anyone who behaves appropriately for the setting is welcome at the table next to me; those who do not, are not.

The article lists a few child-friendly restaurants because most places of that caliber do not welcome children. There are something like 10,000 restaurants in New York City. It makes sense to me that some upscale ones would cater to children (particularly those based in hotels, like the Robuchon place in the Four Seasons) and others would not. I don't have any problem with a subset of restaurants branding themselves as more welcoming and others more exclusive. Last year my family brought our two-year-old to lunch at the Four Seasons in San Francisco and received, bar none, the best service I've ever seen in my life -- service so superb that it kept the child happy and quiet for much longer than we had expected to stay in the restaurant.

That being said, there are four little kids in my extended family right now, and they're very different from one another. I have a 4-year-old nephew who, frankly, I don't enjoy taking to McDonald's. I would go hungry before I'd bring him to Gramercy Tavern! But my 7-year-old niece has been a superb dining companion, with excellent manners and varied tastes, since she was 2. We didn't blink an eye bringing her to white-tablecloth places (albeit not of the Daniel or Per Se caliber), and she was better dressed and better behaved than some of the adult diners.

I think 7 years old is getting close to the age where you could consider taking a child to some nicer restaurants. Like you said, Daniel and Per Se would be too much, but Per Se, specifically could challenge the staying power of an adult with the average dining time of 4 hours. I wouldn't mind seeing a well behaved child under 10 at a haute cuisine restaurant, and would actually be impressed that the parents have introduced such varied foods to the child so that he/she will eat something other than chicken nuggets! (I think the children's menu is the worst thing to happen to American dining.)

[Low C Sharp]

I agree with you about the children's menus! They are evil. Bad for dining and terrible for public health -- children who get in the habit of eating high-fat garbage will always be attached to those foods. The children's menu should have small portions of the dishes on the main menu.

Of course, the finest restaurants will try to make any diner happy, regardless of age and the menu. During the Four Seasons visit that impressed me so much, my 2-year-old niece's mini sandwich came with bite-size mixed fruit on the side. The waitress noticed that my niece loved the blueberries in the fruit salad and was eating them first...so without being asked, she brought a bowl of blueberries to the table! Service like that makes me happy to pay $20 for a club sandwich.

This article has good suggestions for parents:

http://blogs.pitch.com/fatcity/2010/..._taking_yo.php
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LATIN GIRL LIVE

[ApplePiePhi]

I'm a server at a mid-level "upscale" restaurant I guess you can say?
certainly nothing that has really been spoken about on this thread, but higher than the family friendly restaurants. (I'd rather not post where I work due to what I'm going to say)..these are all in the 'general' world, as tips and that sorta thing can never be judged by looking at them, but this is just from my "experience" (i've only worked there for a year so far).

Unfortunately due to the demand of families, our restaurant has had it's doors open up to large parties, and for accommodations for children, which is something that they are now trying to fix with new renovations (making it less reasonable for a party more then 8 to get a table). I find that parties, even at the size of 8 with children are typically awful for a number of reasons

whether they're well behaved or not, if your party is a certain number +, you're going to get atleast 2 servers taking care of you, with the 15% adding right on. However, if a number of kids are included in this party number, the tips diminishes significantly and there's really no point in having the second server around, but due to rules (or sharing of different sectioned tables) nothing can be done. Often parents don't realize this and "compensate"

Then you have the problem of a bunch of children being around each other, almost feeding off each others' energy.. which leads to games like tag, or hide and seek in the dining room. I've seen it multiple times, and unlike most servers or even managers, have found their parents, and have talked to them sternly that our restaurant is not a McDonalds playground, and they could actually be severely hurt if a server walked, or tripped over them, kicked them, or they run into the kitchen's swinging doors when someones behind them. This has happened even without it being a "party" per say.

I've also had a lot of trouble with parents who don't understand to NOT order food for your child if you know s/he won't eat it. Because it ends up on the floor. and who takes care of that? normally the busser, but most of the time, these same parents spend 2+ hrs at the table (so the server looses a possible 2 turns) and the bussers are usually gone by whatever time they finish. So it's the server. Typically, these same people only tip 10%, if that. I had to serve a family where they had a disabled baby. They ordered him mac and cheese. none of it entered this kid's mouth, but ended up ALL over the floor and the table, making a huge disturbance in the dining area as well as a huge mess, which I ended up having to clean up as they left when they bussers did. I understand, that this is my job, and along with it comes this situation...buuut I still don't like it.

And while this child makes a mess, just like any other child who makes a disturbance, the parents are spending more of their time coddling their kid rather than enjoying their meal, which is not cheap.

Another annoyance is when the restaurant is an hour away from close, and you decide to bring your family of 20, 10 of them being children. Sure, it's a weekday, it's late, we have a place for you that is not around the main dining area. But oh wait, you want us to make everyone's meals ready in 10 minutes because you don't want your kids to stay up late on a school night, and they're getting fussy because they should be in bed? sorry, not going to happen.


This was really for me to vent my frustrations. When it comes to well behaved children, I give a huge compliment to the parents to let them know whatever they do as parents is working (while hoping for another parent to overhear and take a hint).