Should fine dining establishments go out of their way to accomodate toddlers?

[SydneyK]

As a mom of two preschoolers, I agree with those who say kids and upscale restaurants don't mix. If for whatever reason you can't leave your child with a babysitter, then adjust your plans accordingly. You can always choose to go to a different restaurant.

I don't agree with this, though:

Originally Posted by sceniczip

I don't want them on my flights either. Kids usually aren't happy when flying but I enjoy flying and I want to continue to enjoy flying, which can't happen when some little kid is crying the whole trip or kicking my seat.

That's a bit over-the-top. There are few realistic alternatives to flying. If you and your 8 month old live in NY and Grandma lives in CA, your opportunities to visit Grandma are severely limited if you can't bring your child on an airplane.

But, back OT, I think it's a double-edge sword for the restaurants. They're catering to families because the demand is there. At the same time, they're alienating the rest of their clientele. No win situation, really.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

A
I don't agree with this, though:


That's a bit over-the-top. There are few realistic alternatives to flying. If you and your 8 month old live in NY and Grandma lives in CA, your opportunities to visit Grandma are severely limited if you can't bring your child on an airplane.

Agreed. And there's a huge difference between a crying baby and a 5 year old kicking the crap out of the back of your seat.

A crying baby generally can't be attributed to bad parenting, lack of control/discipline, etc. Sometimes babies just cry (or sound like they're crying - my 11 week old's version of "talking" right now sounds exactly like the beginning sounds of her crying). You can't do much to shut up a baby sometimes.

[sceniczip]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

That's a bit over-the-top. There are few realistic alternatives to flying. If you and your 8 month old live in NY and Grandma lives in CA, your opportunities to visit Grandma are severely limited if you can't bring your child on an airplane.

Maybe it's a little unrealistic to expect babies not to cry on flights but that doesn't mean I can't still be annoyed by it. I would totally book an adults-only flight if there was an option. I understand that they're not happy but neither are the people who have to listen to them. I don't blame the parents for it though, I just wish there was a way to get them to be quiet.
And it's not over-the-top to expect a kid to not kick my seat. Sorry that's just poor parenting if they don't tell their kid to stop. I do happen to enjoy flying, I like the environment. Call me crazy but I really do.

[Katmandu]

I have had several nice meals out with my husband (all too rare with our budget and schedule) ruined by misbehaving children and adults who think their antics are "cute". So in my book, leave them home with a sitter unless you are really sure they are going to behave. And you insure they are going to behave by practicing table manners at home.

I think one of the problems is that fewer and fewer families sit down at their own dining room tables to eat a meal with napkins, table settings, glassware, and a candle or two. For many of my friends, their family meals were almost always in the car, or standing up at the kitchen island with everyone warming up something and eating when ever they wanted, and/or sitting in front of the TV in the family room. You can't learn table manners and conversation skills if you only eat at a table at Christmas and Thanksgiving. Maybe it's because I had three boys, but I believe that children need a lot of social practice!

I don't buy the argument that after school activities mean you can't have family meals. But that's one of my priorities, so I'm not unbiased on that topic!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sceniczip

And it's not over-the-top to expect a kid to not kick my seat.

No, that's not over the top at all.

I do happen to enjoy flying, I like the environment. Call me crazy but I really do.

I won't call you crazy; I'll just be happy for you next time I'm enduring a flight.

[groovypq]

Originally Posted by sceniczip

Maybe it's a little unrealistic to expect babies not to cry on flights but that doesn't mean I can't still be annoyed by it. I would totally book an adults-only flight if there was an option. I understand that they're not happy but neither are the people who have to listen to them. I don't blame the parents for it though, I just wish there was a way to get them to be quiet.
And it's not over-the-top to expect a kid to not kick my seat. Sorry that's just poor parenting if they don't tell their kid to stop. I do happen to enjoy flying, I like the environment. Call me crazy but I really do.

This. And, it's not over-the-top to expect the parents AND kids to stay in their seats and not hop and bop about all the time. And it's also not over-the-top to expect non-babies to be quiet. Your three-year-old can be told NOT to scream at the top of his/her lungs and comprehend that.

I really only have problems when I go to Florida, and I think it's because the kids are all hopped up on Disney and sugar. Seriously, someone should consider adult-only flights to Florida airports. I bet it would go over.