too broke to bury their dead

[Elephant Walk]

I have no empathy for the Union folks that eat their own businesses alives.

Anyone who participated in the auto Unions helped kill their own industry. They deserve to lose their jobs.

[SWTXBelle]

I do think you can make a distinction between feeling for individuals who are suffering and believing that certain political policies which resulted in the situation were wrong.

[southbymidwest]

It is not just Detroit that has suffered. Ask people from Akron/Canton OH, Gary IN, Pittsburgh PA, Toledo OH, Baltimore MD- those areas were once filled with manufacturers- some for the auto industry, some not, a lot union, some not. The domestic steel industry has been decimated in no small part due to manufacturing overseas where they can pay workers a pittance, and have minimal health, safety and ecologic consequences, and then ship here. The textile industry (which is almost exclusively southern) has been clobbered since the mid 1990's-they have lost over one million jobs, mainly to other countries. This is larger than the idiot mayor of Detroit, the bad decisions made by the bosses at the Big Three, and adversarial union/management relationships. The ripple efect of it all has negatively impacted the communities that have grown up around these manufacturing areas. So Kevin, would you have these people move because they did not see the future because obviously they had their eggs in one basket also?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by southbymidwest

It is not just Detroit that has suffered. Ask people from Akron/Canton OH, Gary IN, Pittsburgh PA, Toledo OH, Baltimore MD- those areas were once filled with manufacturers- some for the auto industry, some not, a lot union, some not. The domestic steel industry has been decimated in no small part due to manufacturing overseas where they can pay workers a pittance, and have minimal health, safety and ecologic consequences, and then ship here. The textile industry (which is almost exclusively southern) has been clobbered since the mid 1990's-they have lost over one million jobs, mainly to other countries. This is larger than the idiot mayor of Detroit, the bad decisions made by the bosses at the Big Three, and adversarial union/management relationships. The ripple efect of it all has negatively impacted the communities that have grown up around these manufacturing areas. So Kevin, would you have these people move because they did not see the future because obviously they had their eggs in one basket also?

Moving is an option. I'd suggest, if nothing else, that they break out of this 'woe is me' B.S. and do something to improve their own situation. Moving might be the best thing for some people as clearly there are more economic opportunities elsewhere, but that clearly isn't the best for everyone.

I imagine in the near future, in places like Detroit where the population is plummeted, the city or some governmental entity will start condemning entire blighted neighborhoods, giving owners the financial opportunity to relocate elsewhere in the city or to another metropolitan area. This is almost a certainty because current city services simply cannot service the population as spread out as it is and continued urban decay is a substantial certainty.

If there was one whit of leadership at the top, this'd already be going on.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by southbymidwest

It is not just Detroit that has suffered. Ask people from Akron/Canton OH, Gary IN, Pittsburgh PA, Toledo OH, Baltimore MD- those areas were once filled with manufacturers- some for the auto industry, some not, a lot union, some not. The domestic steel industry has been decimated in no small part due to manufacturing overseas where they can pay workers a pittance, and have minimal health, safety and ecologic consequences, and then ship here. The textile industry (which is almost exclusively southern) has been clobbered since the mid 1990's-they have lost over one million jobs, mainly to other countries. This is larger than the idiot mayor of Detroit, the bad decisions made by the bosses at the Big Three, and adversarial union/management relationships. The ripple efect of it all has negatively impacted the communities that have grown up around these manufacturing areas. So Kevin, would you have these people move because they did not see the future because obviously they had their eggs in one basket also?

Did I miss the memo? Is it False Dilemma Friday?

People only have control over their own situation - it's probably unlikely that a given individual can resurrect the American steel industry, for instance. If jobs suck in City X and there is simply nothing for them there, then the options are simple: stay there and deal with that situation, or move to a different situation. Obviously it's an imperfect solution, but what other options exist?

The solution to American manufacturers' comparative inefficiency probably isn't "stay in your city and hope things get better through an act of God or Government".

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Moving is an option. I'd suggest, if nothing else, that they break out of this 'woe is me' B.S. and do something to improve their own situation. Moving might be the best thing for some people as clearly there are more economic opportunities elsewhere, but that clearly isn't the best for everyone.

I imagine in the near future, in places like Detroit where the population is plummeted, the city or some governmental entity will start condemning entire blighted neighborhoods, giving owners the financial opportunity to relocate elsewhere in the city or to another metropolitan area. This is almost a certainty because current city services simply cannot service the population as spread out as it is and continued urban decay is a substantial certainty.

If there was one whit of leadership at the top, this'd already be going on.

You just proved that you are only paying attention to what you want to in our posts.

PEOPLE CAN'T MOVE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO MONEY. MOVING COSTS MONEY. PEOPLE CAN'T SELL THEIR HOUSE. THEY CAN'T PAY FOR A SECOND HOUSE IN ANOTHER LOCATION BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS/BUSINESS THEREFORE HAVING NO MONEY TO MOVE.

Do you understand now?

[Kevin]

There's always bankruptcy. People go that route all the time. Sometimes you just have to start over. Quit pretending there are no choices. It was cute for awhile, but not anymore.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by Kevin

There's always bankruptcy. People go that route all the time. Sometimes you just have to start over. Quit pretending there are no choices. It was cute for awhile, but not anymore.

Why don't you take some of your daddy's money and help people? I bet your one of those people who flaunts their money, basks in their richness, and doesn't give a shit about helping those less fortunate. There's special places in hell for people like you.

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Why don't you take some of your daddy's money and help people? I bet your one of those people who flaunts their money, basks in their richness, and doesn't give a shit about helping those less fortunate. There's special places in hell for people like you.

wow, i think that this topic has you a lil too emotional (which is understandable) and while i don't agree with everything that Kevin and others have said, maybe you should step away from the computer for a bit. or from this thread, at the very least. and i mean that in the most respectful manner.

Originally Posted by Kevin

There's always bankruptcy. People go that route all the time. Sometimes you just have to start over. Quit pretending there are no choices. It was cute for awhile, but not anymore.

i was always thought that this is the worst thing you can do, it wrecks your credit for at least 7 yrs and even after that financial institutions still ask if you've ever filed.

i mean maybe at that point its the best option anyway? just curious about ur thoughts in those respects.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

PEOPLE CAN'T MOVE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO MONEY. MOVING COSTS MONEY. PEOPLE CAN'T SELL THEIR HOUSE. THEY CAN'T PAY FOR A SECOND HOUSE IN ANOTHER LOCATION BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS/BUSINESS THEREFORE HAVING NO MONEY TO MOVE.

Do you understand now?

It is REALLY sad that you have to post this, but it just goes to show that some people just don't use common sense.

[DaemonSeid]

Wow.

If I had known what this would have started I may have thunk twice about posting this article.

Actually I did and I thought it was a good idea.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Wow.

If I had known what this would have started I may have thunk twice about posting this article.

Actually I did and I thought it was a good idea.

Yeah....regardless of how Detroit got into this mess, it's in this mess, and I feel for the people too poor to bury a relative.

That's sad, and I don't care about unions that much one way or the other, but it's sad that people are too poor to cremate their own, whether their own family or their own citizens.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Yeah....regardless of how Detroit got into this mess, it's in this mess, and I feel for the people too poor to bury a relative.

That's sad, and I don't care about unions that much one way or the other, but it's sad that people are too poor to cremate their own, whether their own family or their own citizens.

And this is really the bottom line (and you are not the only one who has said this in this thread, but you said it so succinctly I thought I would quote you.) When people can look at this situation and be so lacking in empathy as to label it as a deserved consequence, then we are looking at a crisis of humanity, which is far more disturbing than the economic crisis that we all are now facing.

Also, you would think that the collapse would have demonstrated the "inextricable web of mutuality" in which we all are intwined. For those who think that Detroit's collapse affects only those in Detroit, has the last year shown you nothing?

It is an unfortunate situation all around.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by Little32

Also, you would think that the collapse would have demonstrated the "inextricable web of mutuality" in which we all are intwined. For those who think that Detroit's collapse affects only those in Detroit, has the last year shown you nothing?

How so?

[southbymidwest]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

How so?

In answer to your question, auto makers do not make all of the parts they use to assemble their cars. If they cut production, they cut their orders to suppliers. Their suppliers manufacture these parts all over the country (not just Michigan) and around the world. Smaller orders = smaller production runs = decreased need for workers = reduced hours/reduced workforce. Reduced workforce = less money being spent in the local economy. So that is how a manufacturer of, say, gear shift knobs, in Boise, Idaho, that supplies to the auto industry is hurt by what is going on. Which could impact the local Boise economy.