McCain's Black Relatives

[PrettyInPink777]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

guys...we are 'foolish' and 'morons'...we are so done here....heh

Gee...thank you for setting us straight Mistah Cracker.

Funny -- I was thinking a very similar phrase

This thrust of this thread shows the lack of progress that has been made -- sad.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Some people just don't get it.

Some of us get it DS -- it's just that we weren't all talking about the same thing.

Originally Posted by PrettyInPink777

This thrust of this thread shows the lack of progress that has been made -- sad.

I'm not so sure it's completely the lack of progress (although thst may be part of it) as much as lack of clear communication. I guess I'm the one who started this tangent by responding to a specific question. I wasn't trying to excuse anything or minimize anything, just answering a specific question. Since then, it's obvious to me that people are talking past each other. People are talking about different things but arguing as though they're talking about the same things.

The progress can't happen without the communication.

[PrettyInPink777]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Some of us get it DS -- it's just that we weren't all talking about the same thing.

I'm not so sure it's completely the lack of progress (although thst may be part of it) as much as lack of clear communication. I guess I'm the one who started this tangent by responding to a specific question. I wasn't trying to excuse anything or minimize anything, just answering a specific question. Since then, it's obvious to me that people are talking past each other. People are talking about different things but arguing as though they're talking about the same things.

The progress can't happen without the communication.

I appreciate your perspective, but I stand behind my original assertion. The lack of progress is real -- I live it every day -- and much of this dialogue demonstrates it. That being said, some get it

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

guys...we are 'foolish' and 'morons'...we are so done here....heh

Gee...thank you for setting us straight Mistah Cracker.

No, I said your misplaced outrage is foolish. And I'm pretty sure I've called you a moron on here a number of times, so I apologize for letting myself get sucked into arguing with your inane, off-topic responses again.

Anyways, I still think you two are arguing a point no one is making, but if it makes you feel like a little Jesse Jackson standing up for the black folks, have at it.

And Phrozen, I totally forgot, you're only allowed to "know" things directly related to your own race. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

No, I said your misplaced outrage is foolish. And I'm pretty sure I've called you a moron on here a number of times, so I apologize for letting myself get sucked into arguing with your inane, off-topic responses again.

Anyways, I still think you two are arguing a point no one is making, but if it makes you feel like a little Jesse Jackson standing up for the black folks, have at it.

And Phrozen, I totally forgot, you're only allowed to "know" things directly related to your own race. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

As much as I am gonna hate to say this...I am gonna do it anyways....

I really, truly hate it when some whites refer back to Jesse Jackson as if he is The Spokesperson for All of Black America....name dropping him like that is going to shut us up....

Clue: Jesse Jackson does NOT speak for ALL of us...and I hate it even more because some whites REALLY have no frame of reference to find out of the many of the 1000's of OTHER Blacks who are just as capable and in MANY ways more legitimate than Jesse....please do not allow such foolishness come up out of mouth and God forbid...don't do that if you are face to face in a debate with us...it simply destroys your credibility....just like losing your temper did.

[XSK_Diamond]

Now, you know you're wasting your time.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

As much as I am gonna hate to say this...I am gonna do it anyways....

I really, truly hate it when some whites refer back to Jesse Jackson as if he is The Spokesperson for All of Black America....name dropping him like that is going to shut us up....

Clue: Jesse Jackson does NOT speak for ALL of us...and I hate it even more because some whites REALLY have no frame of reference to find out of the many of the 1000's of OTHER Blacks who are just as capable and in MANY ways more legitimate than Jesse....please do not allow such foolishness come up out of mouth and God forbid...don't do that if you are face to face in a debate with us...it simply destroys your credibility....just like losing your temper did.

[Phrozen1ne]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

As much as I am gonna hate to say this...I am gonna do it anyways....

I really, truly hate it when some whites refer back to Jesse Jackson as if he is The Spokesperson for All of Black America....name dropping him like that is going to shut us up....

Clue: Jesse Jackson does NOT speak for ALL of us...and I hate it even more because some whites REALLY have no frame of reference to find out of the many of the 1000's of OTHER Blacks who are just as capable and in MANY ways more legitimate than Jesse....please do not allow such foolishness come up out of mouth and God forbid...don't do that if you are face to face in a debate with us...it simply destroys your credibility....just like losing your temper did.

It needed to be said. Thank you.

[Phrozen1ne]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

No one is trying to tell you a goddamn thing about your history. No one was arguing anything even remotely related to you two moron's point until you decided to "rebut" every argument with it.

Talking about black africans selling to slave ships =/= saying slavery was ok because africans had slaves too. But it is a wonderful strawman argument if you can't win on a topical point. That being said, at least in my understanding of it, that isn't where this argument came from either.

I think when people in this thread said that Obama's ancestors probably owned slaves too, they were referring to the fact that ALL OF HIS FAMILY IN AMERICA IS/WAS WHITE. But of course that isn't as easy to argue against, so proceed with your foolish misplaced outrage.

No one is trying to win an argument and you're the only moron here. Comment on what you know about from now on. Thanks.

[XSK_Diamond]

Why are you getting upset to the point of cursing and name calling? We obviously don't (and will never) agree on this topic, but that's no reason to lose your temper like you did. All you succeeded in doing is giving me my first HEARTY laugh of the day. Thank you. I mean that from the bottom of my facetious little heart.

Whatever point you were trying to make, my ability to hear it and take you seriously, was lost. I do not agree with you, and I will never agree with you on this topic. Big deal. It's not like we actually matter to each other, anyway (other than if you were drowning I'd try my best to rescue you type of thing - on my part, anyway).

At any rate, we need to stop posting to each other about this topic. It's obvious neither of us are going to budge, and to continue will only waste time and energy, and I don't like wasting my time or energy. So, enjoy your weekend.

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

No one is trying to tell you a goddamn thing about your history. No one was arguing anything even remotely related to you two moron's point until you decided to "rebut" every argument with it.

Talking about black africans selling to slave ships =/= saying slavery was ok because africans had slaves too. But it is a wonderful strawman argument if you can't win on a topical point. That being said, at least in my understanding of it, that isn't where this argument came from either.

I think when people in this thread said that Obama's ancestors probably owned slaves too, they were referring to the fact that ALL OF HIS FAMILY IN AMERICA IS/WAS WHITE. But of course that isn't as easy to argue against, so proceed with your foolish misplaced outrage.

[Senusret I]

Why the hell didn't you people tell me we were having a race war????

I've been waiting for this all year!

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Why the hell didn't you people tell me we were having a race war????

I've been waiting for this all year!

LOL! I thought of you a couple pages ago but I've been lurking on this thread, so I didn't call you over.

[nittanyalum]

I was just checking fivethirtyeight.com and read this article after having just caught up on the posts here. I felt like I had to come back and link it because of the mentions about racial comments coming up in the normal course of the campaign volunteers' days. The posts mentioning the "progress" we've made ran through my head: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/...-virginia.html

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00
What does it matter if these ancestors are probably dead anyways? Seriously? I may have had family in the mafia way way back. Does that affect me today? No. So why does it matter if McCain acknowledges or if it was confirmed that Obama's mother's family owned slaves?

Sen. McCain's silence on this and his lack of participation in the McCain family reunion, if correct, is quizzical, since his brother and many of his cousins have joined in the essentially reconciliatory event. The question is this:why would Sen. McCain want to distance himself from this positive event? What political calculus is behind this? Would he offend a part of his "base"--a base that would look negatively on Black/ White reconciliation and the acknowledgement of the sordid history of our nation? This is not about what happened in the the past but about what he is doing now!

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Sen. McCain's silence on this and his lack of participation in the McCain family reunion, if correct, is quizzical, since his brother and many of his cousins have joined in the essentially reconciliatory event. The question is this:why would Sen. McCain want to distance himself from this positive event? What political calculus is behind this? Would he offend a part of his "base"--a base that would look negatively on Black/ White reconciliation and the acknowledgement of the sordid history of our nation? This is not about what the past but about what he is doing now!

I get why...certain people in this country...believe that slavery is a matter of history. It's difficult to understand the issue when one has no concept of reality. Slavery was (and is) a symptom of a systemic oppressing and denigrating social structure that continues today. Slavery in and of itself is not the core problem.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Slavery was (and is) a symptom of a systemic oppressing and denigrating social structure that continues today.

What were some of the other symptoms circa 1665?

I truly believe this is one area where causation and correlation are basically completely irrelevant, with the one caveat that the term "slavery" causes some measure of irrationality in discussion, clouding the core issue.

In that way, I can see the desire to focus on systemic oppression, but there's really no reason to do anything to minimize the effects of slavery, since many of the tangible bases of oppression (wealth distribution; access to education; role in higher-order decision making) can basically be tied directly to slavery and its after-effects.

I guess, in short: I can see what you're trying to do, but I don't think it's the right way to direct the conversation if you're truly trying to "get through" to people who don't understand.