No place for average PNMs?

[sassygal]

Originally Posted by jamalter

This is an interesting thread for a mom of a PNM at Alabama, who is trying very hard to understand the whole process. I've never been involved with greek life, and my daughter certainly was not "prepared" like I'm reading so many were. This leads me to my thoughts on why my daughter had such an easy time with the process as opposed to some very sad stories that I've read in GC, and may serve as advice to other PNMs trying to understand how to be successful.

My daughter really is "average" at least compared to some I've read about on here. She had a 3.3 GPA, was captain of her volleyball team, had a few minor clubs/organizations that she was involved in (no leadership roles however), and went to a small private school where her rank was right in the middle. She is cute, but not drop dead gorgeous. She didn't take recs seriously, and had recs for less than half the houses. In fact, up until about a week before rush, she was undecided if she was going to go through with it. But at Bama, if you rush, you move in a week early, and this sounded good to her, so she started the process. She had no idea about the different houses and therefore, had a completely open mind going in. I think this is what differentiated her. She pretty much enjoyed every house she visited, maximized all her options every step of the way, and in the end went to the max of 3 pref parties and loved them all.

Had I read GC prior to this process, I would have told her not to bother - she would never make the cut. Bama is too competitive and she wouldn't stand a chance. So why do I think she was sucessful? Because she was relaxed, open minded and never stressed about not making the cut at this house or the other. And that's what I would stress to all new PNMs.

Having said this, no offense, but I still think the process is bizarre.

I thought your response was refreshing to read. I always tell folks that going through recruitment is like a job interview. Your interviewing the Chapters just as much as they are interviewing you. It is a mutual selection process. Thanks for sharing your daughters story.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Very Good! I can tell you that you are so right on a lot of your list especially this one:Top tier may not have wanted you, but would anybody else want a sister who acted bored either? I can not tell you how many times yesterday I saw disinterested, bored, boring, not paying attention and looking around the room (I would totally do that). I think sometimes these women don't even know they are doing this or acting this way. The other common mistake by the last 2 parties these PNM's are pooped- just like the actives are, but they continue to stay alert, upbeat and positive. Some of the PNM's are done and it shows in their conversations and body language and the actives picked up on it.

Oh gosh! This brings to mind one of the worst nights of my life as an adviser.
We had to release a certain number, not many but at least some. It was down to the last two women to decide between. Both had recs, both were about equal - nothing much on paper to distinguish between the two. However, one had acted soooooo bored that night. The girl who had her had an awful time trying to talk with her. She would give one word answers, if she replied at all, looked around at everyone else, never smiled during the skit, didn't applaud, just a big nothing. So we released her. She obviously "wasn't into us" and the other young lady was. Well, the next day I had an irate alum on my phone, yelling at me because we had totally crushed this girl by not inviting her back. She LOVED us soooooo much and realy wanted to pledge. She dropped out of recruitment because we released her. OMG! She did NOTHING to let us know she even tolerated us, much less liked us. Supposedly she was so nervous that she just blanked on everything, froze up. Well, goodness, how did we know that? I always have felt so badly about this but have no idea what we should have done otherwise. We just did not know and had no way to determine that she really was interested.

So, while you may have the proper "creds", you still have to be on. It really is like a job interview. You smile, talk directly, interact with those around you, be polite and act like you are enjoying yourself. You never know when you'll be "that" one.

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by myopicsunflower

O_O

Did this PNM pledge anywhere???

You know what is outrageous? She did get a bid to apparently the struggling chapter on their campus. But I know for a fact that she had brought this up at multiple chapters...I had two friends that went to this same university and they were in different chapters, and they discussed how this girl had become sort of a "rush legend" in both their sororities. I guess she had the school's logo on one cheek and told everybody, and then said she would tattoo the letters on the other one. There was even a facebook picture of her showing the school logo for some time. No word on if she got the letters in the end. But still...I mean, really?

[dukemama]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

No word on if she got the letters in the end.

Good one!

[RhoGamma09]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

To be honest too, sometimes the advice given on here is more focused on what an alumni/advisor would like to hear in recruitment rather than what a 19 year old sophomore is actually going to want to hear. For example, I agree it's good to ask questions about the philanthropy, GPA, etc. But if it's been two parties and all she's done is ask questions about the chapter, she's gained a lot of information about the sorority but the sorority has gained none about her. They may be stuck...sitting around thinking, "well, she's obviously interested, but can I see hanging out with this girl in my sweatpants around the TV? Can I see myself wanting to be her big? Will she be fun to be with at socials?". So I think it is REALLY important to make sure the actives are learning as much about you as you are learning about them...GPA and community service are great, but at the end of the day we want a sister and at some schools EVERY PNM coming through has incredible GPA, activities and community service.

This is really important. I am a living example of that, I went through, and I knew a lot about my first choice sorority, so I didnt have to ask really many questions, and I was relaxed and talking and we just had fun. At the other houses, I didnt really know what they were about, and I (always have a lot of questions anyways!) got so into finding out about them, I forgot to actually make an impression.

I did fine and I got my first choice, but yes, there was a huge difference in the way I acted between the first choice and all the others! So this is something to consider! I know that I made a couple key "mistakes" in maximizing how many chapters I got invited back to, but I was one of the lucky ones and even though I kind of suicided, I was a perfect fit my for my first choice and got a bid.....for many girls though, it doesnt work out so well, and they honestly mightve just not made an impression, or blew off all the wrong houses.

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

. . . The other common mistake by the last 2 parties these PNM's are pooped- just like the actives are, but they continue to stay alert, upbeat and positive. Some of the PNM's are done and it shows in their conversations and body language and the actives picked up on it.

Quick question, then: have any chapters or Panhellenic systems as a whole had some success with planning and carrying out a very short activity at the start of the last couple of open house parties to acknowledge and share in the feling of poopedness -- and then to move on?

Sometimes just a quick mention of the exhausted elephant in the room might be a spark to bring some half-dead PNMs back into the moment.

Not cheezy, like "If you're tired and you know it, clap your hands," but some little thing to re-energize a bit?

[tld221]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I worked with a "bottom" Chapter and like someone mentioned on here they do release women who are mean and rude to the girls. I have seen PNM's make active women cry because they were so awful. It would be hard to have those women come back.

oh come ON - what could a 17-18 year old freshman really say to a (possibly older) active that would make them cry? its a serious question-i really dont see a PNM being so crude and crass that it could bring a member to tears.

whatever it is, those girls need not be rushing PNMs. put them on the refreshment or door chant committee. i would hope that an active could handle the worst of anything a PNM could say, from "this house sucks" to "yo mama."

[RhoGamma09]

Originally Posted by tld221

oh come ON - what could a 17-18 year old freshman really say to a (possibly older) active that would make them cry? its a serious question-i really dont see a PNM being so crude and crass that it could bring a member to tears.

whatever it is, those girls need not be rushing PNMs. put them on the refreshment or door chant committee. i would hope that an active could handle the worst of anything a PNM could say, from "this house sucks" to "yo mama."

I dont know about crying, but man, I do understand what they're saying about mean and crude girls. Or just scary. There are plenty of stories on here.

If you just plain dont feel comfortable around a person, I dont care who you are, its the chapter's right to not extend a bid to that pnm!

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by tld221

oh come ON - what could a 17-18 year old freshman really say to a (possibly older) active that would make them cry? its a serious question-i really dont see a PNM being so crude and crass that it could bring a member to tears.

whatever it is, those girls need not be rushing PNMs. put them on the refreshment or door chant committee. i would hope that an active could handle the worst of anything a PNM could say, from "this house sucks" to "yo mama."

Check out the "Weird Rush Stores" thread. It's quite full of stories of rude, snotty, PNMs who have the balls to say some very mean things about chapters, particularly those that are not their favorites. I doubt they'd cry about it DURING the party, but I have heard of active members of chapters being insulted enough by a comment to possibly cry between parties. I am not a crier, nor am I easily offended, but some people are.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by tld221

oh come ON - what could a 17-18 year old freshman really say to a (possibly older) active that would make them cry? its a serious question-i really dont see a PNM being so crude and crass that it could bring a member to tears.

whatever it is, those girls need not be rushing PNMs. put them on the refreshment or door chant committee. i would hope that an active could handle the worst of anything a PNM could say, from "this house sucks" to "yo mama."

Often the chapters on the receiving end of this kind of treatment are the smallest ones who can't afford not to have every girl rushing.

And yeah, it can be kind of awkward and shocking to have someone be rude right to your face. I doubt she meant that they burst into tears on the spot, but just that it's hard to take.

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by tld221

oh come ON - what could a 17-18 year old freshman really say to a (possibly older) active that would make them cry? its a serious question-i really dont see a PNM being so crude and crass that it could bring a member to tears.

whatever it is, those girls need not be rushing PNMs. put them on the refreshment or door chant committee. i would hope that an active could handle the worst of anything a PNM could say, from "this house sucks" to "yo mama."

I am happy for you that you are not easily offended. I am not either, though at 18 years of age my skin was not as thick as it is now. I had friends in struggling chapters and the rude things PNMs would do to them was to say the least incomprehensible. I could not imagine being that rude to anyone. I could easily imagine an active crying by what some of these catty girls would do. I felt sorry for the active that had to be forced to deal with these b*tches and had to continue to be polite.

[violetpretty]

I have come to several conclusions:

Because RFM does not require "bottom" chapters to cut "because of numbers", "bottom" chapters cut women for reasons. The "paper" reasons are obvious, but the reason for release may simply be that she had a dull personality or offended an active without intention. These are the things that mama or PNM may not realize.

Dull personality types/PNMs who fail to make an impression are more common than cross release percentages would suggest. It is possible that women who withdraw from recruitment may have been cut from all chapters had they stuck it out longer. We will never know.

Furthermore, failures are overrepresented on GC, either because PNMs/moms not in the know come here for information, or come specifically to vent about a failure.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Titchou

If your national organization requires that you have a rec for all NMs, then it doesn't matter if you are top tier or bottom tier, you have to release the woman if you can't get a form on her. Now of course, there are "ways" to get one but frankly, having been an adviser for many years, I'm not signing one on someone we can't find out about and who is average - particularly at a bottom tier school. Strange as it may sound, they have to be picky too - or they are going to stay on bottom. And she is truly average - average grades, average abilities - she's not going to help you raise your GPA or accomplish those things which your organization thinks you are deficient in.

Every NPC has chapters at large schools up North (and elsewhere where it is uncommon for PNMs to secure their own recs) who have three options:
*go without a NM class (not a viable option)
*have advisors scramble for recs for 500 girls
*ignore National policy

Unless you are simply writing on a sheet of paper, "Dear Sisters, I recommend Polly PNM for membership in XYZ. Sincerely, Alumna" and counting that as a rec.

I'm curious as to how some chapters get around such a policy.

[Benzgirl]

Can we put a sticky on this thread?

[AlphaXi_Husky]

Originally Posted by tld221

oh come ON - what could a 17-18 year old freshman really say to a (possibly older) active that would make them cry? its a serious question-i really dont see a PNM being so crude and crass that it could bring a member to tears.

whatever it is, those girls need not be rushing PNMs. put them on the refreshment or door chant committee. i would hope that an active could handle the worst of anything a PNM could say, from "this house sucks" to "yo mama."

I agree with others that have commented about this - it really can be awful enough to make someone cry. Not during the party, but after or in between parties. Especially considering how raw everyone's nerves are after all the late nights and such. I've seen PNMs straight up ask "why did you invite me back, I didn't want to be here" or just simply not even talk and look down their nose at the chapter member recruiting them. Those are the ones I'd just like to shake and shout "where are you manners!!!"