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08-13-2008, 01:56 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 205
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Oh wow I didn't know it was that sensitive...
I did have a friend a while back and she had what the doctors called 'mini-seizures' or seizures on a small scale, we would be talking and all of the sudden she would stare off into space and remember nothing about the conversation but it got to be fairly predictable after a while b/c I spent so much time with her... So I guess my assumptions about his disorder were based on false pretense that they could at some point become predictable as far as patterns go...
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08-13-2008, 11:06 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Springfield, OH
Posts: 683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel
I stick by my statements. I don't agree with throwing food at someone, but it just isn't reasonable to think that any harm is going to come from throwing water on someone. And I think it's stupid to condemn the fraternity for doing something that no reasonable person would expect to cause any harm.
To sit here going "OMG they threw cold water on him! How horrible! Etc., ect." is ridiculous.
I'm sorry to hear that the kid apparently had a preexisting medical condition which this aggravated, but if he didn't think to tell any one that it may happen or he didn't know it would happen himself, condemning someone for throwing water is sitting on a mighty damn high horse.
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I can see your point, but at the same time, what context would the person have brought up his preexisting condition in (prior to the alleged hazing incident)? I doubt that is something that would come up in random conversation. And given that peer pressure would likely be involved in the incident, if the person had mentioned his condition during the incident, I wonder if that would be enough to make the alleged hazers stop or just make them do worse because they thought he was making up excuses to stop.
Tinia2 makes a great point - lots of people have medical, physical, emotional, mental or other underlying issues that may be triggered by a number of things. Why take the chance at triggering something in someone you likely do not know that well?
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08-13-2008, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 245
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"When you have reached the end of the road, then you can decide, whether to go to the left or to the right, to fire or to water. If you make those decisions before you have even set foot upon the road, it will take you no where... except to a bad end."
Last edited by Tinia2; 08-13-2008 at 12:28 PM.
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08-13-2008, 01:22 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,668
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The interesting thing here for me, and what I take away from all of this is that this kid's condition could have probably been triggered by a team building exercise which wasn't hazing. Had that been the case, the chapter would likely be in the clear. Since this was probably a hazing activity, now the chapter has some serious liability issues.
Foreseeability probably wouldn't be much of a legal issue since the Plaintiff is probably pleading that this was negligence per se. In other words, if the injury occurred while the defendant was violating a statute or regulation, where the harm which occurred was the type the statute seeks to prevent, where the statute's purpose is safety, and that the plaintiff was within the zone of risk, then there's a presumption of negligence.
If the plaintiff here had simply been participating in some sort of a ropes course and had a similar incident, this'd be a completely different ball game.
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08-13-2008, 01:41 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Springfield, OH
Posts: 683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
The interesting thing here for me, and what I take away from all of this is that this kid's condition could have probably been triggered by a team building exercise which wasn't hazing. Had that been the case, the chapter would likely be in the clear. Since this was probably a hazing activity, now the chapter has some serious liability issues.
Foreseeability probably wouldn't be much of a legal issue since the Plaintiff is probably pleading that this was negligence per se. In other words, if the injury occurred while the defendant was violating a statute or regulation, where the harm which occurred was the type the statute seeks to prevent, where the statute's purpose is safety, and that the plaintiff was within the zone of risk, then there's a presumption of negligence.
If the plaintiff here had simply been participating in some sort of a ropes course and had a similar incident, this'd be a completely different ball game.
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Hmm, interesting point and I agree with you on that. I would hope that any sort of ropes course/team challenge type activities would have a trained facilitator who would ask participants to acknowledge and inform them about any preexisting conditions, and likely sign some sort of waiver. not that having acknowledgement of a condition or signing a waiver would help much in a hazing case, but a reputable challenge course would likely have liability coverage I'm sure.
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08-13-2008, 05:58 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: In Mombasa, in a bar room drinking gin.
Posts: 896
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Quote:
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"Becoming nationally affiliated and changing the name is the most baller thing you can do to your frat," said Alpha Delt member Russell Posner, a junior.
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They sound like real geniuses when they say something like that. But honestly if I'm looking for fair coverage of Greek related news, particularly negative news related to GLOs, the school newspaper is going to be one of the last places I look generally.
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08-13-2008, 08:45 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel
They sound like real geniuses when they say something like that. But honestly if I'm looking for fair coverage of Greek related news, particularly negative news related to GLOs, the school newspaper is going to be one of the last places I look generally.
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not going to argue that point with you; i have personally seen it cut both ways some times rather deeply. however it is right now just about the only direct source on this matter, unless you have another that you care to share with the rest of greek chat, that we have to look at. and as i posted before, we just have to keep an eye on the news for updates.
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"When you have reached the end of the road, then you can decide, whether to go to the left or to the right, to fire or to water. If you make those decisions before you have even set foot upon the road, it will take you no where... except to a bad end."
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08-14-2008, 12:29 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Looks as if the local cops may have made an error.
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-3376903.shtml
"Hazing is a misdemeanor in North Carolina. According to a state statute, anyone who engages in hazing can be charged, but a law passed in 2003 says indictments cannot be based on self-incriminating testimony.
When Klufas initially tried to report the incident to DPD, however, officers informed him that he could be arrested as well, Seeger said. "Regardless of what the statute says, my client did not haze himself. There was a line that was crossed," Seeger said.
Kammie Michael, public information officer and public relations coordinator for DPD, declined to comment on the likelihood that Klufas could be charged and said she could not remember the last time DPD had investigated allegations of hazing at Duke."
police also seem to have rather short memories: "In 2000, only Duke University and UC have reported sorority hazing incidents."
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"When you have reached the end of the road, then you can decide, whether to go to the left or to the right, to fire or to water. If you make those decisions before you have even set foot upon the road, it will take you no where... except to a bad end."
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08-31-2008, 03:13 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 29
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wow....this is...ridiculous........first of all...there is no higher reason...as to why you would strip a pledge and throw cold water on him..that doesn't build brotherly bonds...
second of all..the chances of this person dying because of some cold water...are slim to none......
...if he didn't want to be in that situation...he shouldn't have been there.....
this is why, in my opinion......hazing.....shouldn't be a legal issue at all
but rather one of common sense.....
when someone says hey...strip down and let me throw water on you.... unless i'm some kind of brain dead zombie who can't think for himself....then i'm gonna have to say no.....
if the activity...is still viewed as hazing..by some..but has a higher..purpose......i'm more likely to stay..but even then..i have the option to leave
people always say well they FORCE pledges to do this
they don't FORCE pledges to do a damn thing.......its a request...and at any time...that person has the right to say...no?
soooo ridiculous?
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Tgtbmamittob
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08-31-2008, 04:51 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: State of Imagination
Posts: 3,400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one800thekiller
wow....this is...ridiculous........first of all...there is no higher reason...as to why you would strip a pledge and throw cold water on him..that doesn't build brotherly bonds...
second of all..the chances of this person dying because of some cold water...are slim to none......
...if he didn't want to be in that situation...he shouldn't have been there.....
this is why, in my opinion......hazing.....shouldn't be a legal issue at all
but rather one of common sense.....
when someone says hey...strip down and let me throw water on you.... unless i'm some kind of brain dead zombie who can't think for himself....then i'm gonna have to say no.....
if the activity...is still viewed as hazing..by some..but has a higher..purpose......i'm more likely to stay..but even then..i have the option to leave
people always say well they FORCE pledges to do this
they don't FORCE pledges to do a damn thing.......its a request...and at any time...that person has the right to say...no?
soooo ridiculous?
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Just wondering, as you said in an earlier email, you have a fraternity consisting of 3 members. Your signature says:
Phi Delta Sigma Vice Presedent
Fall '08
Tgtbmamittob
Have you pledged/been a member of an incoming class? Are you an active with an existing pledge/new member class? Are you a pledge?
I just want to have an idea of where you are coming from when I read your posts. Your title and time frame is confusing me, as are your postings, when from what I read, you aren't a typical operating chapter (at a capacity of an executive board, in the very least).
Perhaps if people better stood your situation, they could better be able to respond to your posts. At the moment, they are kind of jibberish.
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