Dirty Rushing and Consequences

[33girl]

The only thing I can think of is not permitting them to participate in things like Homecoming or intramurals. Then again, that only works if Greeks on the campus make a big deal out of it. Plus you're kind of getting out of the Panhellenic sphere and into something a campus jud board or Greek council would have to solve, and you know the guys would be like "they did what? Who gives a crap?"

The less Greeks are deeply involved with the campus, the less fines and sanctions will work. Like you said, they'll just have unregistered parties and take their chances. You could report them to their national, but that seems kind of vindictive...and the national might believe their own rather than an accusing Panhel.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

Neither have I!!! I'm surprised their National Headquarters didn't throw down about this.

This school only has locals, no national sororities. That may have had something to do with it. I believe they were on probation by the school at the time, too, for hazing that included:

1). Giving NMs a frozen hot dog and giving them 2 minutes to 'warm it up'.

2). Circle the fat, in a football field, by a fraternity. Then, they would have the NMs lay down on the ground, put raw meat on the circled parts, and bring out dogs to eat it off their bodies.

Sounds like an exaggeration, I know, but I know this because my best friend's little sister pledged there and ended up dropping because she couldn't take it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

This school only has locals, no national sororities. That may have had something to do with it. I believe they were on probation by the school at the time, too, for hazing that included:

1). Giving NMs a frozen hot dog and giving them 2 minutes to 'warm it up'.

I'm assuming they weren't allowed to use a microwave? LOL

Yeah, if it's a locals only school, limiting pledges is what is usually used for fraternities and sororities as far as discipline for anything is concerned.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

1). Giving NMs a frozen hot dog and giving them 2 minutes to 'warm it up'.

Wow. I think I'd tell them where they could stick that hotdog to warm it up. And it would be even less comfortable than what they were planning on...

[chitownxo]

As AlphaFrog can attest, Western Illinois back in the day, did not have the best idea of "panhellenic unity", so it never surprised me when we heard about rush infractions. There was one incident that sticks in my mind, both for what was said, and the group's punishment.

When I was an undergrad, there were 6 sororities; 3 always made quota, 2 made quota every couple of years, and 1 never did. During my junior year, the house that never made (DEF) quota had their national come down and help them with recruitment. According to the story I heard from their recruitment chair (who was a very good friend of mine), their return rates for 2nd round were amazing - literally all but 5 they invited came back. Their returns for pref were horrible. A couple of the girls who did come back mentioned that the ABCs told everyone that the DEF's would be closing at the end of the year, and not to waste their time going back to that house. They offered up the fact that their nationals were in town as proof. Part of our new member class confirmed the story.

So, DEF complains to Panhellenic, and ABC eventually acknowledges it. Their punishment? Panhellenic had them become parade marshalls at the homecoming parade. Yup. They were able to wear letters and march in the parade promoting the sorority while waving to the crowd. Justice wasn't exactly served here.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by chitownxo

As AlphaFrog can attest, Western Illinois back in the day, did not have the best idea of "panhellenic unity", so it never surprised me when we heard about rush infractions. There was one incident that sticks in my mind, both for what was said, and the group's punishment.

There are certain chapters that can't get in their head that when one group drops off, the next group down the line becomes the weakest link, and they end up with a target on their back. Pretty soon, the group putting the target on the weak group's back is going to end up as the weakest group.

[UGAalum94]

I didn't realize you could COB over total. I always imagined that the bids went through the Greek Life office and someone kept track, but especially at schools with no Greek Life office, I can see how that would be my faulty thinking.

Please kept in mind that I only know SEC situations, and I recognize that every place isn't like the SEC, but I haven't had experience with how things play out elsewhere.

Based on what I have seen, it seems kind of reasonable to be somewhat flexible in COB situations at campuses where groups can go over total by pledging to quota during formal. It seems a little odd that it's allowed one semester to pledge above, but not the next.

And since at the campuses I know, only the groups who either don't consistently make quota or have trouble with retention are COBing, basically even going up to total keeps them smaller than the groups who always pledge quota and keep everyone. So oddly, a hard COB cap at total "hurts" small to medium sized groups. Or maybe it helps the small at the expense of the medium?

Imagine a group at UGA where chapter total is 170 or 175, something like that, but quota is 50 to 60 each year. A group that hits quota and keeps everyone could have a lot more girls than a group who didn't make quota or lost a lot from year to year*. The smaller group might get to total as it's presently set, but they won't really ever be able to make up what can end up being a pretty big size difference. Why not let them COB a few more if they can?

Maybe everyone could alway be welcome to bid to largest chapter size in COB, rather than average size? (Now, that I think about it, isn't that one of the choices for how you set total? For the first time, I can see its appeal.)

*You'd think that every group had the same shot at retention, and to some degree that's right, but chapters that typically pledge socially prominent, very affluent girls (often the top groups during formal) probably don't have as many girls with financial difficulties, and groups viewed a lower tier groups may not be able to give their members the same social experience as "top" groups, leading to more drops.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I didn't realize you could COB over total. I always imagined that the bids went through the Greek Life office and someone kept track, but especially at schools with no Greek Life office, I can see how that would be my faulty thinking.

I think DBB talked about this before and if I recall it wasn't a screwup on the part of the GL office, it was the sorority omitting/twisting membership information.

The problem is once the girls are given the bids...taking the bids back would penalize the pledges more than it would the sorority. It's not their fault (well, usually) that they got caught up in something shady, so they shouldn't have to pay for it.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think DBB talked about this before and if I recall it wasn't a screwup on the part of the GL office, it was the sorority omitting/twisting membership information.

The problem is once the girls are given the bids...taking the bids back would penalize the pledges more than it would the sorority. It's not their fault (well, usually) that they got caught up in something shady, so they shouldn't have to pay for it.

Actually, to this day I believe it was an HONEST MISTAKE on the part of the group involved (not my own), because they didn't understand the quota/total rules and exactly how they worked. However, ignorance of the rules is not a defense, in my mind, no more than it ignorance of the law is a defense for a traffic violation.

I was actually the one who found out about it and got our area officer involved, and we weren't out to "get" the other sorority or see them punished. In a COB situation, it was likely they were girls would would have gone to that chapter or not gone Greek at all.

The problem was that allowing it to go unnoticed would set a really dangerous precedent for future situations.

[arkadpi]

Dirty Rushing at our campus has been ghastly since I pledged, in 2005. There have been changes in the scheduling of recruitment, from before school started to now, during the first semester. It's gotten worse, of course. Most girls I knew got calls from several of our 8 houses during the off-time of Rush week. The houses would call to assure girls that they were wanted, and to confirm that the PNM would not cut their house, ABC, the next day.
So, if ABC ends up not giving her a bid, she might complain to the Greek Life Office, but what can they do about it? She didn't get a bid. They can't give her one. If she files an official complaint for dirty rushing, they get fined. Most houses do budget for fines.
A few houses have consistently released more women than allowed on the first and second nights of recruitment. That may be a hefty fine, even, but their alums and budgetting allow them too. Even if it were a difficult payment for the chapter to make financially, who cares? They don't get those women added back to their party lists for the next days of rush. They get rid of them. They get what they want. And their chapters don't have to hold on to the women that are guaranteed a bid from somebody, because of our campus's policy. No punishments can fix that. No matter what the infraction, all dirty-rushing usually gets the offending chapter little punishment. Restricting numbers would actually keep that from happening, and I'm inclined to agree with the policy.

[exlurker]

LSU's Panhellenic has reportedly adopted new sanctions for bid promising, which is supposedly a problem there sometimes:

Recent article:

http://tigerweekly.com/article/12-11-2007/7168

Until now, the penalty for bid promising there was a fine and possibly some sort of probation.
The new policy, according to the article ^, is:

"Chapters found in violation of this policy will result in social suspension on and off campus for the fall semester,” as stated in the Rules Governing Recruitment. This means no exchanges, no formals, semi-formals, grubs or grab-a-dates for an entire semester if found responsible for promising a potential member an invitation to a chapter.

Of course, I guess the bid promising would have to be reported in the first place, then investigated.

Is it likely that the new policy will produce the results LSU's Panhel wants? Do I look like I know? Anyone with good knowledge of LSU recruitment care to discuss?

[NutBrnHair]

Originally Posted by exlurker

LSU's Panhellenic has reportedly adopted new sanctions for bid promising, which is supposedly a problem there sometimes:

Recent article:

http://tigerweekly.com/article/12-11-2007/7168

It certainly is a problem that needs attention; however, I still think it will be difficult to enforce. Won't it end up being her word against hers?

Here's an idea -- bring Judge Judy in for the week after Bid Day -- she'll get to the bottom of it!

[carnation]

[QUOTE=arkadpi;1562821]Dirty Rushing at our campus has been ghastly since I pledged, in 2005.[QUOTE]

LOL, it was ghastly at UAF 35 years ago too.

[Denise_DPhiE]

All of the posts in this thread just emphasize the giant BIATCH attitude of some groups/campuses. Glad I do not deal with collegians b/c this stuff is ugly!

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by arkadpi

A few houses have consistently released more women than allowed on the first and second nights of recruitment.

How would this be a problem? It sounds like your campus uses release figures. Release figures suggest a different number of PNMs for each chapter to invite back based on retention. Chapters are allowed to invite fewer than the suggested number, but they can't invite more. If a chapter wants to release more PNMs than their suggested number, that's their problem IMO, because it's a risk they're willing to take.