Vick indicted in dog fighting case

[Lil' Hannah]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I have no problem with controlled fighting for sport for people, like boxing or real Olympic wrestling. But when the point is to maim or kill for entertainment and gambling, it would be sick for people to do it, and maybe even sicker to compel animals to do it who have no choose not to.

Last night my friend and I were talking about the whole Vick thing and he said "how is it any worse than bullfighting?" I don't really know enough about either sport to give a good answer so after a few seconds I brilliantly said "It just is, okay!" He does raise a point though...can anyone explain for me?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Lil' Hannah

Last night my friend and I were talking about the whole Vick thing and he said "how is it any worse than bullfighting?" I don't really know enough about either sport to give a good answer so after a few seconds I brilliantly said "It just is, okay!" He does raise a point though...can anyone explain for me?

The main difference is that Hemmingway never wrote about dog fighting so we don't romanticize it at all, in my mind - although some would argue that pitting man against animal is somehow different from beast v beast, I think some of the world finds bullfighting pretty much awful, too.

[honeychile]

I could throw up, just reading/hearing about this. The poor "bait dogs" - with their mouths wired shut so they can't fight back - what type of person does that, allows that, or watches that?

Not only should Vick be indicted, but absolutely every person who watched these spectacle should be indicted also.

Jill has the right idea!

[ZTAngel]

I don't think either is ok but I think the way humans rationalize bullfighting is that bulls are aggressive, unmanageable animals. Dogs are seen as man's best friend...our companions. Dogs are viewed as "cute" while bulls are viewed "mean". I don't think there is as much as an outcry against bullfighting because people don't automatically think of their own pet when they hear about a bull dying.

[OneTimeSBX]

bullfighting isnt right either. however, a bull sure as hell can run you over, even kill you, in a controlled environment. these dogs couldnt, they didnt have a chance

ZTAngel is right, we look at bulls a whole different way than we do dogs...

[kstar]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

So . . . it was born more open to the training? Or did the dog make a decision to be more open? Either way, you're kind of contradictory (either nature plays a huge role, or there are in fact 'bad' dogs) - not that it's at all relevant to the thread, it's clear Pit Bulls can be extremely good pets under the right circumstances. I'm not sure why you go beyond that, at all.

Dogs have different levels of intelligence, and learn what people will teach them at different rates. (I was trying to say that Tasha is d-u-m-b, dumb, dumber than dirt. But she is sweet.)

And it was in reference to what someone posted who implied that the dogs have to fight because they were originally bred for it, the nature arguement. I responded with an anecdote for the nurture arguement. Also, to highlight the horrific manner in which these dogs have been treated, so that people might understand some of their behavior.

[UGAalum94]

I suspect that if I actually went to see one, I would find bullfighting pretty bad too.

I think it's funny that K Sig RC mentioned Hemingway because when my husband and I were talking about this last night, I pretty much used The Sun Also Rises as my basis for understanding bullfighting. Thanks, Earnest.

But really, from the running of the bulls to bullfights in other places, I think the idea is based on the real possibility that the bull can gore the man and kill him. There's a bizarre element of authentic respect for the danger to both competitors, and the heroic nature of choosing to confront danger directly and repeatedly. (Sure, the bull's "choice" is probably instinctive and compelled by all the people involved, the flags, etc. I wondered what would happen if the bull just trotted over to the side of the ring by the door and stood there all like "no really man, I'm a lover not a fighter.")

Also, we take for granted that bulls are going to be killed. Most of the time today, it's going to be in a slaughterhouse maybe with electrodes really quickly.

But the tradition of bullfighting probably grew up in a time when people took for granted the legitimacy of man killing bull with knives, and bizarrely the fight probably grew out of respect and honor for the bull.

(Really, though, basically wearing the bull down and repeatedly stabbing him; not such a great example of humane treatment of animals.)

[Tom Earp]

Funny, I fought some Bulls in Mexico, down Baja Way out side of Las Reyes.

Once a bull has fought anyone they are not allowed to fight again and when killed, the meat is given to the poor for food.

If you have never been to a packing plant, the Bulls have a better chance than the cow you eat on your bun.

Breeding dogs to fight is incorrect, they are trained and tortutored to fight!

Killing dogs like the way they do is inhumain for sure.

I had a Pit Bull who was a pussy and was always playing and very protective of the lady I was living withs grand daughters who lived with us, ages 3-4. No one messed with them when tigre was around!

[Soliloquy]

The whole Vick family has put themselves into the hot spot the past few years.

I don't know what the deal is with them!

Cockfights are still legal in some states, how sad.

Anything having to do with animal cruelty just makes my stomach turn and my heart hurt. I saw this video on youtube once where some lady was stepping on puppies with heels, I got about 30 seconds into it before I had to x it out. I later found out it was fake, but that didn't stop me from getting angry/sick at the time.

[macallan25]

I don't mean to get off topic......but Tom Earp just said that he fought bulls in Baja Mexico. No offense at all.........but that is one of the most hilarious mental images I have been fortunate to have in quite some time. Earple......please tell me you were hammered runk.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Talks about drowning the dogs, slamming their heads on the ground, choking them, shooting them, putting them in water and then electricuting them, etc. etc. It names witnesses, names of dogs, dogs that Vick purchased, how much money was being pooled...............personally I think the guy is screwed.

I think I just threw up a little bit....I liked Vick up until the last 2 or 3 years...he was the reason why the falcons got on the map and now they are about to go back to obscurity again....sigh

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I don't mean to get off topic......but Tom Earp just said that he fought bulls in Baja Mexico. No offense at all.........but that is one of the most hilarious mental images I have been fortunate to have in quite some time. Earple......please tell me you were hammered runk.

Yeah, I saw that too. I'd love to read about it in standard prose. Mr. Earp, are you up for it?

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

The whole Vick family has put themselves into the hot spot the past few years.

Who thought a couple years ago that Marcus would be the classier of the two? Not me.

[ZTABullwinkle]

Originally Posted by lyrelyre

Who thought a couple years ago that Marcus would be the classier of the two? Not me.

I think both brothers leave a lot to be desired...

Michael's court date is also the opening day of Atlanta training camp. I would think that the NFL has no choice but to suspend him.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by ZTABullwinkle

I think both brothers leave a lot to be desired...

Michael's court date is also the opening day of Atlanta training camp. I would think that the NFL has no choice but to suspend him.

Zero chance he gets suspended unless/until he's convicted.

Like him or not, this is his first real violation, and the NFL program is only hard on repeat offenders.